cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/36828107
ID: WookieeMark @EvilGenXer posted:
"OK so look, Capitalism is right wing.
Period.
If you are pro-capitalism, you are Right Wing.
There is no pro-capitalist Left. That’s a polite fiction in the US that no one can afford any longer as the ecosystem is actually collapsing around us."
This thread is exactly why leftist unity communities need to make it clear to liberals that they aren’t leftist.
Because otherwise you end up with what you see in these comments: a bunch of people in your “movement” who are completely willing to acquiesce to Capital
(Michael Perenti, Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism)
LEFT…LEFT…LEFT, RIGHT 'O LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT…
capitalism is right wing, correct.
but not all pro-capitalists are capitalists.
a pro-capitalist could be right wing, or they could be a victim of the powerful capitalist propaganda machine. this is how we get “bootlickers” and “temporarily embarrassed billionaires.”
more generally, OOP commits the sin of trying to wedge a specific category with economic meaning into a broad unspecific category which can have various economic manifestations depending on who you ask and at what time.
it’s an okay post. not particularly insightful and could use some workshopping.
Greed is really the problem. Capitalism is just another apparatus without the means to solve it.
Let’s wittle down our coalition until it’s the size of the student communist group from disco elysium
Acting as if the terms left and right aren’t completely arbitrary.
They aren’t. Right wing is oriented to tradition and hierarchy while left wing is oriented to progress and equality. This has been understood since the concept originated during the French Revolution.
So that’d place capitalism, oligarchy and democracy left for the most of the globe?
I can’t see how the left wing being oriented to progress and equality would mean that capitalism and oligarchy would fit that. Could you explain your thinking?
Capitalism and oligarchy would be a shitton of progress for religious autocracies, covert monarchies, unapologetic monarchies and dictatorships. Those dozens of counterexamples countries for which they’d mean a regress are statistical outliers and shouldn’t be counted.
Nah. It’s a form of economics that rewards supply following demand. I’m pretty lefty liberal and I’m 100% in favor of fair capitalism. For most things.
Capitalism is just a machine, a system, and I fully believe in intelligence and hard work being rewarded over sitting on your couch playing video games. Capitalism also requires a well regulated system, progressive taxes, safety nets,etc. There are also some areas where capitalism doesn’t work and another system should be used, such as health care, police, fire, etc.
However the idea that capitalism is right wing is bullshit. Maybe uncontrolled capitalism is right wing, but I take strong issue with the most effective economic system in the world being considered “right wing”, it’s not.
Capitalism is just a machine, a system,
Yeah, a machine that produces extreme wealth disparity that the 1% then use to buy politicians, all our media, and fund neo-fascist groups that want to destroy democracy.
Capitalism is also a machine poisoned the entire US with a very nasty neurotoxin known to greatly reduce intelligence and increase violence. And for what? To sell more cars. Capitalists put a nasty neurotoxin in gasoline just to make a quick buck.
Capitalism is also a machine that is destroying the planet and driving a mass extinction event that could potentially wipe out humanity.
Capitalism requires indefinite growth.
We have a word for something that grows indefinitely. It’s called “cancer”, and it eventually kills whichever organism it’s a part of by stealing nutrients designed for other parts of the system. The only way for an organism with cancer to survive is if the cancer is killed off before the organism dies.
That’s where we’re at. Capitalism might have gotten us this far, but the same can be said about any person with cancer. What worked for us in the past isn’t guaranteed to work for us in the future, and could actively be what’s killing us.
We have to adapt.
I’m 100% in favor of fair capitalism.
How funny! I am 100% in favor of magic pixie dust!
None of that is capitalism.
Capitalism is when a small number of people (an elite, by definition) control the majority of the Capital, which is property that can be used to conduct business and make money. What lefties call “the means of production.” Capital is things like factories, data centers, power plants, mines, large acres of land used for farming, and so on.
What you’re failing to describe properly is Markets. Markets aren’t evil, free trade between well-informed parties isn’t evil. Money, in fact, is the root of all evil but is not in itself evil. None of those things are Capitalism.
100%
Uh oh, something not blatantly anti-capitalist! Here comes the down votes!
Yes, i believe: war is inherently a right-wing thing, and capitalism is the moral equivalent of war, just channeled into formulas.
I also believe that war is inherently unstable and only an unavoidable side-effect of technological progress. It decays naturally into peace, at which point left-wing takes over.
So what? You don’t like the voluntary exchange of goods and services? Trade = capitalism. Furthermore you’d rather trust the government than the average individual? Yeah I get the desire for socialized medical care and welfare. Whatever. But even countries with socialized public services have private sectors. So let’s get more fundamental.
Capital = having money. Capitalism = engaging in trade, that is exchanging one asset or services for another for mutual benefit. Fascism != Capitalism. Government != Fascism Fascism = government + capitalism. More specifically there are certain hallmarks of fascism that sadly are showing up in western society. But capitalism alone does not equate to that. You don’t get an authoritarian regime by engaging in trade. You need to pass laws in order to get that. You wouldn’t even have corporations without government support.
So again I’m hesitant to throw in with the pro government movement when half of this whole fascism/corporate problem is government. I mean I’m against the whole monopoly on violence to begin with but saying voluntary interaction is bad but violence is good seems rather counterintuitive to me. You don’t need government to decentralize things or return the means of production to the people or whatever but still such things should be voluntary. That’s why open source is so revolutionary. It’s essentially a gift economy and doesn’t use transactions or violence. People give their time and labor away and everyone benefits. Code ensures transparency and decentralized distribution. Furthermore without patents and copyright from the private sector we wouldn’t have copy left and open source software. Just some food for thought there.
Yes it is right wing… Obviously? Any other big news?
This is controversial and possiblt world-shattering to many who exist entirely within the American political bubble.
Well I’m from Germany
Capitalism is like fire. Unchecked, it will happily consume your house. Never the less, it’s an excellent tool for certain tasks. It must be handled with care and contained appropriately.
Right now, a lit of the world looks like London during the great fire. Capitalism has been allowed to run unchecked, and has gotten completely out of control. The massive dilemma is how to reign it in, without collapsing large chunks of society.
Abandoning Capitalism completely is almost as bad as letting it run unchecked.
Tf is this nonsense? Why do you think “a little capitalism” is a good thing? Just a sprinkling of exploitation to keep things spicy?
Marx identified that capitalism by necessity leads to an endless cycle of collapses. There is no way to avoid suffering under capitalism.
