The perpetual advice to Democrats is that moving rightward will solve all their problems. But look where the party is at the moment: already embracing Republican affect and policies, yet still losing.
Democrats are the furthest thing from “moderate”, they are on the extreme center. The idea that liberal centrism can’t be extremist is damaging. Supporting endless proxy warfare in Ukraine, genocide in Gaza and austerity at home are all irrational, extremist positions that the Democrats (and most liberal parties in other countries) believe in.
Supporting peace isn’t “Russian propaganda”, 78% of Ukranians want a negotiated end to the war. If you want to keep fighting Russia then send your own damn troops and quit forcing Ukranians to die over an inter-imperial pissing match that’s killed almost their entire fighting age male population.
Personally I hope Ukrainians do what they want - if a majority of them really do want a negotiated end to the war then they should do that.
I bet most of them probably want Russia to ultimately leave Ukraine though, and if they want help in achieving that, then I think we should help Ukraine.
Everybody agrees with supporting Ukraine including myself, the problem is that saying “maybe there should be a ceasefire and negotiated land swap” or “Ukraine should learn to live with Russia on their borders” triggers an extreme reaction in a lot of liberal centrists that just highlights the point in my original post 🤷♀️ Meanwhile Ukranians are being shoved into busses and forced to fight a losing war.
I definitely don’t want people to be forced to fight - it should be up to Ukrainians what they want to do. You have a point about Ukrainians wanting a negotiated end to the war. I found this:
Hopefully other countries can help Ukraine get as close as possible to a situation where they have Ukrainian land back, and where Ukrainians can determine their own future, instead of being pushed around by Russia.
Democrats are the furthest thing from “moderate”, they are on the extreme center. The idea that liberal centrism can’t be extremist is damaging. Supporting endless proxy warfare in Ukraine, genocide in Gaza and austerity at home are all irrational, extremist positions that the Democrats (and most liberal parties in other countries) believe in.
Get out of here with that Russian propaganda crap. Only 1 country is using Ukraine for a war and it’s Russia.
thank you for identifying this guy. His response to you clinched it.
Supporting peace isn’t “Russian propaganda”, 78% of Ukranians want a negotiated end to the war. If you want to keep fighting Russia then send your own damn troops and quit forcing Ukranians to die over an inter-imperial pissing match that’s killed almost their entire fighting age male population.
Personally I hope Ukrainians do what they want - if a majority of them really do want a negotiated end to the war then they should do that.
I bet most of them probably want Russia to ultimately leave Ukraine though, and if they want help in achieving that, then I think we should help Ukraine.
Everybody agrees with supporting Ukraine including myself, the problem is that saying “maybe there should be a ceasefire and negotiated land swap” or “Ukraine should learn to live with Russia on their borders” triggers an extreme reaction in a lot of liberal centrists that just highlights the point in my original post 🤷♀️ Meanwhile Ukranians are being shoved into busses and forced to fight a losing war.
I definitely don’t want people to be forced to fight - it should be up to Ukrainians what they want to do. You have a point about Ukrainians wanting a negotiated end to the war. I found this:
Hopefully other countries can help Ukraine get as close as possible to a situation where they have Ukrainian land back, and where Ukrainians can determine their own future, instead of being pushed around by Russia.
Oh, I’m sure the Ukrainians would love peace. too bad the Russians just want to wipe them out, so peace isn’t really an option for them