With a hit TV series, a documentary about his parents, a WWII movie and 'Focker-in-Law' in the pipeline, Stiller, near 60, isn't slowing down: 'You only have so much time.'
Idk, don’t get me wrong, I’m going to devour a new season day 1. But the two of them running headlong into certain doom… Idk, I could be happy in a world where we don’t see that doom.
Its another Lost, we’ll be saying that for every season, lol.
I love Severance, but it’s obvious every season is going to end with an escalating series of increasingly higher stakes and further down the rabbit hole questions.
I’m here for it, but I also have to admit there’s a level of dissatisfaction I find myself in when engaging with this style of show writing. All I can say is I hope the ending wraps it all up nicely.
As far as Ben Stiller leaving the show, we’ll have to see if the other writers can pull it off, of which I’m fairly confident they can. Ben wrote some great episodes, but IIRC there were great episodes all around with all their writers, so I have no worries the series will remain high quality.
The show’s creator, Dan Erickson, has stated multiple times that he has an end point in mind, but he is flexible about how long it will take to get there. So not quite as good as Vince Gilligan’s “I’m telling a five season story” but still much better than Abram’s style of writing a mystery with no solution and hoping it comes to him later.
I’m not sure an ending without a clear timeline is actually worth much. How can you properly pace all the various elements if you haven’t decided when they’ll conclude? Game of Thrones had an ending, and all the major moments are things that were planned well in advance. However, because the people making it were “flexible” about the total number of seasons right up until they decided to end it, none of the conclusions in the final season felt satisfying and the overwhelming consensus was that the show got nowhere close to delivering on the hype it deservedly built early on. Sorry to be a doomer, I know people are big on Severance right now, but I agree with the previous commenter that it has massive red flags after Season 2.
I do take your point, but Game of Thrones is a hilarious example for you to use considering G.R.R.M’s indecisiveness concerning how long the series would be over the years. First it was a Trilogy, then four books, then six, now seven. He was literally flexible about the total number of books to get to his ending, exactly the point you are trying to counter. And D&D were anything but Flexible. They were advised by Martin on how to pace the ending and they ignored him. They were offered more seasons by HBO and turned them down. They rushed the ending to go make a Disney Star Wars and I don’t really see how that’s here nor there unless your concern is that the series will be rushed or directionless without Stiller, and I’d say it still has its creator and good writers behind it so there’s still hope. Doom and hope are equally worthless, though. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
HBO only had a plan for a minimum of 7 seasons, there was no decision made about how many additional seasons were needed to conclude the story. Because it was flexible about its timeline, it allowed the showrunners the flexibility to cut the show short at 8 seasons and go elsewhere. If there had been a clear plan from the beginning about how long the show needed to run for to reach a satisfying conclusion, it would have been far less likely to run out of time and rush its ending. Maybe your point here is that there is no way anyone at HBO could have made such a plan because it was completely beholden to Martin’s own writing, but I don’t think this argument works at all considering modern TV adaptations frequently ignore source material (which is what a lot of people assumed happened with the GoT ending, despite that not really being true). Taking a relaxed attitude to the planning of these multiple-season serial shows can put the entire production at risk if problems occur later on (which is not insignificant, given how long they are in production for). Doubly so for mystery box series like Severance that are built upon an ever expanding list of questions to drive viewer speculation and engagement.
modern TV adaptations frequently ignore source material (which is what a lot of people assumed happened with the GoT ending, despite that not really being true).
I gotta ask, have you read the books? No shade if you haven’t, but that definitely is true. D&D had strayed from the source material long before they ran out of it. The bullet points of the ending may have been from Martin but there’s no way their ending is even close to what will/might happen in the books assuming their completion because the two are simply too different.
And on Martin’s advice HBO offered them three more seasons to wrap up the show rather than one. This was a huge gesture as the cast was becoming wildly famous and would have cost a fortune to keep on for that long. The showrunners deliberately chose to rush the ending and that one of many reasons why it sucked so bad.
I don’t know if I really have an argument here. I generally agree with what you’re saying, I just like talkin’ Thrones.
The bullet points of the ending may have been from Martin
Yes, that is what I was referencing. I’m not talking about when/whether minor characters surive or die and how that influences the plot later down the line, but rather the culminations of major storylines like
spoiler
Bran sitting the Iron Throne, which was arguably the biggest disappointment for many fans of the TV show (though for me it was the rushed conclusion to the White Walker stuff).
Martin has confirmed that he gave those big ideas to the showrunners well in advance.
As for whether I’ve read the books: only the first. I enjoyed it but I figure there is no point in reading further considering this dude is 100% going to die before he finishes writing the series.
Anyway, I will concede that Game of Thrones is an extreme example considering how much of a clusterfuck it was, but it was the show that immediately came to mind because I was listening to someone else rant about the ending the other day and it brought it all back for me. I think if Severance wasn’t a mystery box show, I would feel more confident about its direction but considering the tropes of that genre and the language of the writer (“We have most of it answered in our heads. 80/20?..I have a last scene in mind, and a lot of the story that will get us there. Trying to find the balance of having a plan and letting the show have its own life and grow organically based on what works.”) I’m concerned that they could overreach and ultimately fail to deliver a coherent and satisfying story. In general, I don’t think it’s a good idea to write in real time based on the reactions of a vocal sub-section of your viewership.
Would be kind of cruel to end things on the season 2 finale cliffhanger.
Idk, don’t get me wrong, I’m going to devour a new season day 1. But the two of them running headlong into certain doom… Idk, I could be happy in a world where we don’t see that doom.
Except Apple hasn’t been doing binge releases. They do weekly episodes which is great for drumming up discussion.
I feel like you missed the point of their post.
Its another Lost, we’ll be saying that for every season, lol.
I love Severance, but it’s obvious every season is going to end with an escalating series of increasingly higher stakes and further down the rabbit hole questions.
I’m here for it, but I also have to admit there’s a level of dissatisfaction I find myself in when engaging with this style of show writing. All I can say is I hope the ending wraps it all up nicely.
As far as Ben Stiller leaving the show, we’ll have to see if the other writers can pull it off, of which I’m fairly confident they can. Ben wrote some great episodes, but IIRC there were great episodes all around with all their writers, so I have no worries the series will remain high quality.
The show’s creator, Dan Erickson, has stated multiple times that he has an end point in mind, but he is flexible about how long it will take to get there. So not quite as good as Vince Gilligan’s “I’m telling a five season story” but still much better than Abram’s style of writing a mystery with no solution and hoping it comes to him later.
I’m not sure an ending without a clear timeline is actually worth much. How can you properly pace all the various elements if you haven’t decided when they’ll conclude? Game of Thrones had an ending, and all the major moments are things that were planned well in advance. However, because the people making it were “flexible” about the total number of seasons right up until they decided to end it, none of the conclusions in the final season felt satisfying and the overwhelming consensus was that the show got nowhere close to delivering on the hype it deservedly built early on. Sorry to be a doomer, I know people are big on Severance right now, but I agree with the previous commenter that it has massive red flags after Season 2.
I do take your point, but Game of Thrones is a hilarious example for you to use considering G.R.R.M’s indecisiveness concerning how long the series would be over the years. First it was a Trilogy, then four books, then six, now seven. He was literally flexible about the total number of books to get to his ending, exactly the point you are trying to counter. And D&D were anything but Flexible. They were advised by Martin on how to pace the ending and they ignored him. They were offered more seasons by HBO and turned them down. They rushed the ending to go make a Disney Star Wars and I don’t really see how that’s here nor there unless your concern is that the series will be rushed or directionless without Stiller, and I’d say it still has its creator and good writers behind it so there’s still hope. Doom and hope are equally worthless, though. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
HBO only had a plan for a minimum of 7 seasons, there was no decision made about how many additional seasons were needed to conclude the story. Because it was flexible about its timeline, it allowed the showrunners the flexibility to cut the show short at 8 seasons and go elsewhere. If there had been a clear plan from the beginning about how long the show needed to run for to reach a satisfying conclusion, it would have been far less likely to run out of time and rush its ending. Maybe your point here is that there is no way anyone at HBO could have made such a plan because it was completely beholden to Martin’s own writing, but I don’t think this argument works at all considering modern TV adaptations frequently ignore source material (which is what a lot of people assumed happened with the GoT ending, despite that not really being true). Taking a relaxed attitude to the planning of these multiple-season serial shows can put the entire production at risk if problems occur later on (which is not insignificant, given how long they are in production for). Doubly so for mystery box series like Severance that are built upon an ever expanding list of questions to drive viewer speculation and engagement.
I gotta ask, have you read the books? No shade if you haven’t, but that definitely is true. D&D had strayed from the source material long before they ran out of it. The bullet points of the ending may have been from Martin but there’s no way their ending is even close to what will/might happen in the books assuming their completion because the two are simply too different.
And on Martin’s advice HBO offered them three more seasons to wrap up the show rather than one. This was a huge gesture as the cast was becoming wildly famous and would have cost a fortune to keep on for that long. The showrunners deliberately chose to rush the ending and that one of many reasons why it sucked so bad.
I don’t know if I really have an argument here. I generally agree with what you’re saying, I just like talkin’ Thrones.
Yes, that is what I was referencing. I’m not talking about when/whether minor characters surive or die and how that influences the plot later down the line, but rather the culminations of major storylines like
spoiler
Bran sitting the Iron Throne, which was arguably the biggest disappointment for many fans of the TV show (though for me it was the rushed conclusion to the White Walker stuff).
Martin has confirmed that he gave those big ideas to the showrunners well in advance.
As for whether I’ve read the books: only the first. I enjoyed it but I figure there is no point in reading further considering this dude is 100% going to die before he finishes writing the series.
Anyway, I will concede that Game of Thrones is an extreme example considering how much of a clusterfuck it was, but it was the show that immediately came to mind because I was listening to someone else rant about the ending the other day and it brought it all back for me. I think if Severance wasn’t a mystery box show, I would feel more confident about its direction but considering the tropes of that genre and the language of the writer (“We have most of it answered in our heads. 80/20?..I have a last scene in mind, and a lot of the story that will get us there. Trying to find the balance of having a plan and letting the show have its own life and grow organically based on what works.”) I’m concerned that they could overreach and ultimately fail to deliver a coherent and satisfying story. In general, I don’t think it’s a good idea to write in real time based on the reactions of a vocal sub-section of your viewership.