I’ve seen so much degrowth spam/trolling yesterday. This is organized hopelessness in favour of a hopeless failure of a solution. The only degrowth that will ever occur is through mass war/murder. It is a massive resource/diesel investment to conduct the mass destruction/murder. It takes a very dark soul to support degrowth, because it simply has no implementation path based on everyone voluntarily internalizing BP’s carbon footprint personal responsibility.
Clean energy can replace oligarchist climate terrorist energy without degrowth. Plastic is not a climate problem, and much of it recyclable. Ocean pollution is primarily fishing nets, which seems easily solvable with cotton or other biodegradable materials.
Degrowth, other than voluntarily choosing veganism or carbon footprint responsibility, as global or national policy, means intentional permanent recession, strengthening oligarchist supremacist opposition to degrowth. It gives an appealing side benefit to genocide.
There won’t be enough voluntary uptake to make a dent, even if degrowth becomes a political coalition to pander to. Clean growth with carbon/GHG taxes partially funding freedom dividends globally, is a recipe for utopian global harmony and happiness. Degrowth, a divisive recipe for supporting genocidal warmonging, that contributes to coalition inclusive of degrowth not gaining power due to the economic stupidity of including their platform. Portraying leftist ideology as fascist bureacratic economic destruction and warmongering is an oligarchist supremacist ploy.
Deindustrialization of the US has resulted in political scapegoating straw grasping, that won last election: Immigration, and bipartisan war on China path. Global or national degrowth will fuel more hatred, and passion for war, because we are well below the democratic capacity of Idiocracy, already.
My fight with degrowth trolls yesterday was in response to milestone in clean H2 achievement out of China. Because the US has climate terrorist oligarch energy protections, it ensures it loses AI race with China. Oligarchist media would rather you promote Amishness degrowth (btw needs more acres per people than currently available acres), than adopt Chinese clean energy to permit technology and manufacturing growth. ie. If we lost at solar dominance/relevance, and will lose at AI relevance, pretend we never should have tried.
I think you have a point. Although i dont have the knowledge to see for sure that there really is a viable path alternative to economic degrowth.
i agree that directly supporting degrowth would be unpopular, lead to conflict and maybe would benefit a movement towards genocide. Correct me if thats not what you meant.
The crack i see in this argument is that it seems to assume that economic growth and quality of life are correlated and that people see it this way. A movement towards improving quality of life in general would entail, i assume, a reduction of our working hours, a reduction in industrial production (as we produce a lot of useless objects just as an excuse to redistribute means of survival without changing the dynamic of the economic system). So a move towards better quality of life would naturally lead to a healthy economic degrowth (in some areas) that could be well seen by people. Maybe im fantasizing too much, but i hope not.
economic growth and quality of life are correlated and that people see it this way.
They are, before corruption factors. Economic growth = wealth = more options to improve quality of life.
Financial insecurity corrupts the mind towards hate. Greed from powerful will manipulate populist insecurity towards either direct support of oligarchist/zionist supremacism platform, or towards hateful stupidity that sabotages democratic process towards oligarchism. Technological progress keeps enabling an alternative to slavery from increases in total prosperity. Oligarchist supremacist rule can choose increased oppression instead, followed by “lets genocide the uppity slave class instead of subsidizing their demand”. Degrowth stupidity as an anti-Oligarchist political platform, strengthens oligarchist genocide solution arguments.
UBI/freedom dividends is a solution to everything. Opposing UBI is only rational if you need oppression and oppressive power hierarchy to enjoy life. UBI redistributes power away from political discretion, it makes labour markets fair, it makes everyone who wants to work much richer, while increasing overall consumption. Disruption, including clean energy transition, is net job creating in addition to enhancing current and future standard of living. Oligarchist campaigns to protect their evil can be told to shut their climate terrorist fuckfaces, or their fuckfaces will be shut for them. $300/ton co2 carbon tax ($3/gallon gasoline) can contribute $4000-$7000 in UBI funding for Americans. It provides market driven clean growth transition.
The demonic evil of degrowth advocacy is that it is rooted in derailing clean growth policy. I’ve seen it accompanying the most vile and absurd US empire propaganda points, that cannot possibly come from an organically gullible but an honest idiocracy. It is with 100% certainty that the push for degrowth comes from CIA/Oligarchist sources in order to divide and disinform those concerned with climate and human sustainability. “See how all of those climate alarmists hate your job and want to destroy the economy!!!”
maybe inspired by this comment? https://lemmy.ca/comment/18397539
I’ve seen so much degrowth spam/trolling yesterday. This is organized hopelessness in favour of a hopeless failure of a solution. The only degrowth that will ever occur is through mass war/murder. It is a massive resource/diesel investment to conduct the mass destruction/murder. It takes a very dark soul to support degrowth, because it simply has no implementation path based on everyone voluntarily internalizing BP’s carbon footprint personal responsibility.
A degrowth can be in consumption rather than population. We could use less plastic, less gas,…a lot less
Clean energy can replace oligarchist climate terrorist energy without degrowth. Plastic is not a climate problem, and much of it recyclable. Ocean pollution is primarily fishing nets, which seems easily solvable with cotton or other biodegradable materials.
Degrowth, other than voluntarily choosing veganism or carbon footprint responsibility, as global or national policy, means intentional permanent recession, strengthening oligarchist supremacist opposition to degrowth. It gives an appealing side benefit to genocide.
There won’t be enough voluntary uptake to make a dent, even if degrowth becomes a political coalition to pander to. Clean growth with carbon/GHG taxes partially funding freedom dividends globally, is a recipe for utopian global harmony and happiness. Degrowth, a divisive recipe for supporting genocidal warmonging, that contributes to coalition inclusive of degrowth not gaining power due to the economic stupidity of including their platform. Portraying leftist ideology as fascist bureacratic economic destruction and warmongering is an oligarchist supremacist ploy.
Deindustrialization of the US has resulted in political scapegoating straw grasping, that won last election: Immigration, and bipartisan war on China path. Global or national degrowth will fuel more hatred, and passion for war, because we are well below the democratic capacity of Idiocracy, already.
My fight with degrowth trolls yesterday was in response to milestone in clean H2 achievement out of China. Because the US has climate terrorist oligarch energy protections, it ensures it loses AI race with China. Oligarchist media would rather you promote Amishness degrowth (btw needs more acres per people than currently available acres), than adopt Chinese clean energy to permit technology and manufacturing growth. ie. If we lost at solar dominance/relevance, and will lose at AI relevance, pretend we never should have tried.
I think you have a point. Although i dont have the knowledge to see for sure that there really is a viable path alternative to economic degrowth.
i agree that directly supporting degrowth would be unpopular, lead to conflict and maybe would benefit a movement towards genocide. Correct me if thats not what you meant.
The crack i see in this argument is that it seems to assume that economic growth and quality of life are correlated and that people see it this way. A movement towards improving quality of life in general would entail, i assume, a reduction of our working hours, a reduction in industrial production (as we produce a lot of useless objects just as an excuse to redistribute means of survival without changing the dynamic of the economic system). So a move towards better quality of life would naturally lead to a healthy economic degrowth (in some areas) that could be well seen by people. Maybe im fantasizing too much, but i hope not.
They are, before corruption factors. Economic growth = wealth = more options to improve quality of life.
Financial insecurity corrupts the mind towards hate. Greed from powerful will manipulate populist insecurity towards either direct support of oligarchist/zionist supremacism platform, or towards hateful stupidity that sabotages democratic process towards oligarchism. Technological progress keeps enabling an alternative to slavery from increases in total prosperity. Oligarchist supremacist rule can choose increased oppression instead, followed by “lets genocide the uppity slave class instead of subsidizing their demand”. Degrowth stupidity as an anti-Oligarchist political platform, strengthens oligarchist genocide solution arguments.
UBI/freedom dividends is a solution to everything. Opposing UBI is only rational if you need oppression and oppressive power hierarchy to enjoy life. UBI redistributes power away from political discretion, it makes labour markets fair, it makes everyone who wants to work much richer, while increasing overall consumption. Disruption, including clean energy transition, is net job creating in addition to enhancing current and future standard of living. Oligarchist campaigns to protect their evil can be told to shut their climate terrorist fuckfaces, or their fuckfaces will be shut for them. $300/ton co2 carbon tax ($3/gallon gasoline) can contribute $4000-$7000 in UBI funding for Americans. It provides market driven clean growth transition.
The demonic evil of degrowth advocacy is that it is rooted in derailing clean growth policy. I’ve seen it accompanying the most vile and absurd US empire propaganda points, that cannot possibly come from an organically gullible but an honest idiocracy. It is with 100% certainty that the push for degrowth comes from CIA/Oligarchist sources in order to divide and disinform those concerned with climate and human sustainability. “See how all of those climate alarmists hate your job and want to destroy the economy!!!”