Public ownership of the means of production with the suppression of the owning/capitalist class until all capitalist nation state have been destroyed and we can have a socialist world republic, duh
So you feel entitled to demand society be torn down but not a crumb of responsibility to build it again?
I can agree that something close to communism is the ideal government. But not if it’s run by incompetent or corrupt people. It would be akin to what we saw in post-exit Afghanistan, with clueless gun toting buffoons holding civic offices.
In an anarchist reigon of spain, they produced so much bread and oil that after giving it away for free they were still able to export some (source).
If anything, anarchism would make managing the means more effiecent, since it elimates the bureaucracy around it. There would be more workers since Bullshit Jobs (read the book by David Graeber, even if you’re not an anarchist it’s a good read). Would be eliminted.
A contextless example with no direct connection to 99% of other issues?
Explain how your cherry picked example directly translates to other industries.
Explain how that would scale from a small region to sustaining a population of millions
What is your evidence that the main detractor to efficiency is bureaucracy?
Why would people if office jobs go work on fields?
Like bruh this is literally the level of thinking MAGA put before essentially allowing ICE to deport half their workers.
Transitioning away from capitalism involves peoples lives… like millions to billions of them. Rational, empathetic people, will not join you in a revolution that could potentially cause more suffering than the status quo.
I’m going to have to ask this again it seems. Where has 100% socialism worked for longer than 10 years for a country?
I think socialism is a great idea, but it doesn’t work for anything larger than a small commune and you have to have a common purpose. The greeds are going to take over and become authoritarian pretty quickly if you try it for a country. That’s why socialist democrat seems to be the way to meet everyone’s needs. Bernie style.
if it doesn’t work, then why would america try their best to shut socialism down? seriously if you need a test and you’re in the uk, I can hook you up with a therapist
You could lazily ask that question or you can actually read about how anarchist and communist societies are formed and destroyed (hint: often by outside armies when theyve only just begun). Capitalism clearly doesn’t work for anyone but the rich & powerful, so we need to try something different. No one has The One True Answer, we have to build the new world starting from where we are.
I agree that social democracy would be a big improvement over the terribly cruel form of capitalism we have today. I would make further changes than just that, but we can choose not to fight each other at least until we get that far. Organize together instead of infighting.
I’m going to have to ask this again it seems. Where has 100% socialism worked for longer than 10 years for a country?
it’s confounded by the US, a powerful state, being deeply ideologically opposed to socialism. Maybe shit would have worked without the US sabotaging it
Socialism and capitalism aren’t diametrically opposed. Functionally socialism is just capitalism + egalitarianism. If capitalism can go to the moon… socialism prevents everyone from drowning. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
I agree that socialism “doesn’t scale”, but that’s due to the nature of markets. TLDR you simply cannot trade globally without the mechanics of capitalism coming into play. Like the beginning section of Karl Marx book was explaining how the economics of one region could directly cause a famine in a completely separate region.
IMO communism will only work in a society that enacts it peacefully. A violent revolution inevitably costs skilled individuals and inherently creates detractors. 90% of the challenges in a capitalist society will still exist in a communist one. The less traumatic the transition the better positioned society is for immediate success.
Honestly I don’t think you actually can have socialism that isn’t a functioning democracy. Ownership implies power over something, and a government by its nature must have power over the things within it’s borders. If society at large, ie the people, don’t control the government, then regardless of who owns things on paper, whatever smaller group of people actually control the government effectively own whatever is in that country, and therefore their effect is fundamentally similar to the effect that a wealthy capitalist class has in a capitalist society. Anything where the people aren’t actually in charge that calls itself socialist, is just using the terminology and aesthetics to gain support without actually setting up the socialized ownership structure that the name implies.
I agree 100%, that’s why they never have an example of one that has worked, there isn’t one. I appreciate the goal, but the practicality of it is nil as a stand alone for anything country size.
I’ve known people that made it work as a living situation, but they all had outside jobs and were bringing resources from outside the community. I’ve heard of it working as a small commune in Norway where they grow their own food and such, but that’s it.
There has to be some sort of trade with a world this size, we currently use ephemeral numbers that we trade and some times paper. If it was a commune, they would still have to trade labor, carrots, chickens or whatever. Capitalism will always be there in some form or another.
Public ownership of the means of production with the suppression of the owning/capitalist class until all capitalist nation state have been destroyed and we can have a socialist world republic, duh
socialism, yk, anarchism, is hard to understand for u? do you need your brain checked?
So you feel entitled to demand society be torn down but not a crumb of responsibility to build it again?
I can agree that something close to communism is the ideal government. But not if it’s run by incompetent or corrupt people. It would be akin to what we saw in post-exit Afghanistan, with clueless gun toting buffoons holding civic offices.
Grow up.
if it exploits the people like capitalism does, it should be replaced
Anarchists/socialists want to sieze the means of production, not destroy them.
Seizing is a lot easier than managing.
Well then chap, grab a gun and seize us some means!
In an anarchist reigon of spain, they produced so much bread and oil that after giving it away for free they were still able to export some (source).
If anything, anarchism would make managing the means more effiecent, since it elimates the bureaucracy around it. There would be more workers since Bullshit Jobs (read the book by David Graeber, even if you’re not an anarchist it’s a good read). Would be eliminted.
A contextless example with no direct connection to 99% of other issues?
Explain how your cherry picked example directly translates to other industries.
Explain how that would scale from a small region to sustaining a population of millions
What is your evidence that the main detractor to efficiency is bureaucracy?
Why would people if office jobs go work on fields?
Like bruh this is literally the level of thinking MAGA put before essentially allowing ICE to deport half their workers.
Transitioning away from capitalism involves peoples lives… like millions to billions of them. Rational, empathetic people, will not join you in a revolution that could potentially cause more suffering than the status quo.
I’m going to have to ask this again it seems. Where has 100% socialism worked for longer than 10 years for a country?
I think socialism is a great idea, but it doesn’t work for anything larger than a small commune and you have to have a common purpose. The greeds are going to take over and become authoritarian pretty quickly if you try it for a country. That’s why socialist democrat seems to be the way to meet everyone’s needs. Bernie style.
if it doesn’t work, then why would america try their best to shut socialism down? seriously if you need a test and you’re in the uk, I can hook you up with a therapist
The U.S is just concerned for the people there.
They obviously have good intentions.
Okay, name one that worked.
name one that wasn’t immediately bitch slapped by the uk/us/cia
Exactly, we’re agreeing.
You could lazily ask that question or you can actually read about how anarchist and communist societies are formed and destroyed (hint: often by outside armies when theyve only just begun). Capitalism clearly doesn’t work for anyone but the rich & powerful, so we need to try something different. No one has The One True Answer, we have to build the new world starting from where we are.
I agree that social democracy would be a big improvement over the terribly cruel form of capitalism we have today. I would make further changes than just that, but we can choose not to fight each other at least until we get that far. Organize together instead of infighting.
it’s confounded by the US, a powerful state, being deeply ideologically opposed to socialism. Maybe shit would have worked without the US sabotaging it
Where the hell has capitalism worked?
Socialism and capitalism aren’t diametrically opposed. Functionally socialism is just capitalism + egalitarianism. If capitalism can go to the moon… socialism prevents everyone from drowning. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
I agree that socialism “doesn’t scale”, but that’s due to the nature of markets. TLDR you simply cannot trade globally without the mechanics of capitalism coming into play. Like the beginning section of Karl Marx book was explaining how the economics of one region could directly cause a famine in a completely separate region.
IMO communism will only work in a society that enacts it peacefully. A violent revolution inevitably costs skilled individuals and inherently creates detractors. 90% of the challenges in a capitalist society will still exist in a communist one. The less traumatic the transition the better positioned society is for immediate success.
Honestly I don’t think you actually can have socialism that isn’t a functioning democracy. Ownership implies power over something, and a government by its nature must have power over the things within it’s borders. If society at large, ie the people, don’t control the government, then regardless of who owns things on paper, whatever smaller group of people actually control the government effectively own whatever is in that country, and therefore their effect is fundamentally similar to the effect that a wealthy capitalist class has in a capitalist society. Anything where the people aren’t actually in charge that calls itself socialist, is just using the terminology and aesthetics to gain support without actually setting up the socialized ownership structure that the name implies.
I agree 100%, that’s why they never have an example of one that has worked, there isn’t one. I appreciate the goal, but the practicality of it is nil as a stand alone for anything country size.
I’ve known people that made it work as a living situation, but they all had outside jobs and were bringing resources from outside the community. I’ve heard of it working as a small commune in Norway where they grow their own food and such, but that’s it.
There has to be some sort of trade with a world this size, we currently use ephemeral numbers that we trade and some times paper. If it was a commune, they would still have to trade labor, carrots, chickens or whatever. Capitalism will always be there in some form or another.