You don’t. If you treat being vegan like a religion where you feel the need to convert everyone else then you’re in a cult. A normal person would just present their case, make their arguments, and live their life based on their principles… That’s it. If someone is convinced that you’re correct then they’ll adopt your values on their own, and if they don’t you just have to accept their choice and move on.
By your definition and description, capitalism itself is a cult. Advertisers spend a whole lotta time and effort trying to convince people to buy shit that they don’t really need. The tech sector trying to cram AI down everyone’s throat certainly must qualify.
I would also note that the animal ag industry exhibits this cultist behavior in trying to convince people that the atrocities it commits are OK. And trying to convince people to consume more meat than what is medically beneficial. To the point that they’ll utilize state violence to shut down dissenters.
I get downvoted a lot by .worlders even for unbiased true statements, but I still think it’s the most effective for convincing debatebros. Irl the most effective is just having good meals that happen to be vegan, so people around you see it’s really not that hard and you can still eat good food.
my most successful tactic was just to talk about my own decisions as they relate to reducing my contributions to an overall system of suffering that i as a human also suffer under. applying no pressure other than peer pressure
To be blunt, other than demonstrating plant-based foods and offering my experiences and recommendations of non-animal options (food, clothing, or otherwise), it isn’t even a discussion I put much effort engaging in. Typically it comes up due to questions people have for me when they see what I eat (and don’t eat).
My actual “counter-strategy” for the animal ag industry is to sell the childfree lifestyle, since that indirectly results in fewer meateaters. This has several advantages:
it’s fairly easy, since I can really play up the economic reasons. If not that, I can point to environmental degradation and a laundry list of other things.
childfree is already an order of magnitude more common than veganism, so it is already a bit mainstream
actually following through with it is easier since it is less frequently challenged and very defensible in terms of personal freedom
building on the previous point, it is promoting a freedom rather than a restriction. It’s even in the name: childfree
I do not, and absolutely will not push it. That goes directly against my concept of promoting personal freedom. I simply present the information, and it sort of just sells itself. If someone doesn’t see the advantages, oh well.
I’m sure this will piss some people off (including vegans), which just goes to show that there really is no pleasing everyone.
You could start by talking like a civilized person without insults and maybe use facts, research, philosophy, etc. to explain your position why eating meat is bad and have a civilized debate.
This isn’t going to be popular but meat eaters need to put their ego aside and hear what those who speak out against animal torture are trying to tell them. Factory farmed meat is anything but civilized.
“need to put their ego aside” - pot, kettle. The more compelling arguments I have seen have to do with the amounts consumed being both unhealthy and not economic.
Self righteous egotistical fools just make me disregard their position.
My feelings aren’t hurt. Over the past 30 years I’d heard it all. It’s time for you to understand that all the rape, torture, and death are unnecessary. Call me whatever name you want, I really don’t care.
So I should never try to persuade anyone of anything?
How can one change society if we aren’t allowed to challenge people’s beliefs? I’m glad that people have confronted others on the various inequalities and injustices in society in order to effect change, rather than just going “welp, that’s just how things are!”
I think YOU are missing the point of the first comment and MY point.
They said that they are infuriated by people name-calling them, somebody said “see how you like it” and… I wasn’t infuriated.
Insane that anti-vegan people (who have generally fallen for right-wing propaganda) are so bandwagony that you are getting upvoted for being so very incorrect.
Yep, if namecalling is what prevents someone from going vegan…no it isn’t. It is just an excuse and they were going to continue eating meat with or without the namecalling.
It’s not the name calling it’s that it basically shuts down anyone actually considering it because that’s how humans work. If you say you are bad for doing this the most common reactions are to become defensive or ignore it, both of which are counterproductive to someone changing their mind.
not implying they are right wing at all, that wasn’t my intention. Try re-reading it.
Nah, op is correct.
So the first comment in this thread did not say they were infuriated? Is that not what I was originally replying to? Is that not why I said I was unbothered by namecalling, to point out the fact that it is not infuriating?
Really ridiculous how vegans think this will put off any meat eaters from eating meat.
Actually it’s having the opposite effect, it just infuriates people and makes them hungry.
I myself am hungry for a chicken now!
It looks like my techniques work at least sometimes because I’ve helped many people go vegetarian and a couple go vegan.
That double down is making me so hungry! I wish they still had them.
So what combination of words should vegans be using to convince meateaters to stop consuming meat?
I see a lot of people telling vegans what not to say, but not a lot about what they should be saying to make their case.
What would you find to be a convincing argument?
You don’t. If you treat being vegan like a religion where you feel the need to convert everyone else then you’re in a cult. A normal person would just present their case, make their arguments, and live their life based on their principles… That’s it. If someone is convinced that you’re correct then they’ll adopt your values on their own, and if they don’t you just have to accept their choice and move on.
By your definition and description, capitalism itself is a cult. Advertisers spend a whole lotta time and effort trying to convince people to buy shit that they don’t really need. The tech sector trying to cram AI down everyone’s throat certainly must qualify.
I would also note that the animal ag industry exhibits this cultist behavior in trying to convince people that the atrocities it commits are OK. And trying to convince people to consume more meat than what is medically beneficial. To the point that they’ll utilize state violence to shut down dissenters.
Society is full of cults.
unbiased, true statements. it may not be convincing, but falsehood and hyperbole isn’t a good way to convince anyone of anything.
I get downvoted a lot by .worlders even for unbiased true statements, but I still think it’s the most effective for convincing debatebros. Irl the most effective is just having good meals that happen to be vegan, so people around you see it’s really not that hard and you can still eat good food.
I wish political campaigners, propagandists, and advertisers would adhere to this!
my most successful tactic was just to talk about my own decisions as they relate to reducing my contributions to an overall system of suffering that i as a human also suffer under. applying no pressure other than peer pressure
To be blunt, other than demonstrating plant-based foods and offering my experiences and recommendations of non-animal options (food, clothing, or otherwise), it isn’t even a discussion I put much effort engaging in. Typically it comes up due to questions people have for me when they see what I eat (and don’t eat).
My actual “counter-strategy” for the animal ag industry is to sell the childfree lifestyle, since that indirectly results in fewer meateaters. This has several advantages:
it’s fairly easy, since I can really play up the economic reasons. If not that, I can point to environmental degradation and a laundry list of other things.
childfree is already an order of magnitude more common than veganism, so it is already a bit mainstream
actually following through with it is easier since it is less frequently challenged and very defensible in terms of personal freedom
building on the previous point, it is promoting a freedom rather than a restriction. It’s even in the name: childfree
I do not, and absolutely will not push it. That goes directly against my concept of promoting personal freedom. I simply present the information, and it sort of just sells itself. If someone doesn’t see the advantages, oh well.
I’m sure this will piss some people off (including vegans), which just goes to show that there really is no pleasing everyone.
You could start by talking like a civilized person without insults and maybe use facts, research, philosophy, etc. to explain your position why eating meat is bad and have a civilized debate.
This isn’t going to be popular but meat eaters need to put their ego aside and hear what those who speak out against animal torture are trying to tell them. Factory farmed meat is anything but civilized.
“need to put their ego aside” - pot, kettle. The more compelling arguments I have seen have to do with the amounts consumed being both unhealthy and not economic.
Self righteous egotistical fools just make me disregard their position.
My feelings aren’t hurt. Over the past 30 years I’d heard it all. It’s time for you to understand that all the rape, torture, and death are unnecessary. Call me whatever name you want, I really don’t care.
Yes but what people should do and what they will respond to are two different things
Maybe just stop trying to push your personal beliefs on everyone else?
So I should never try to persuade anyone of anything?
How can one change society if we aren’t allowed to challenge people’s beliefs? I’m glad that people have confronted others on the various inequalities and injustices in society in order to effect change, rather than just going “welp, that’s just how things are!”
if you are infuriated by somebody pointing out the cruelties of your actions then i think that is a reflection of you, not them.
Let’s see how you like being called names:
You skinny shitmouth, go eat some cabbage grown in cow shit.
Weird that this didn’t affect me or want to change my diet at all.
Congratulations … you got the point of the first comment.
I think YOU are missing the point of the first comment and MY point.
They said that they are infuriated by people name-calling them, somebody said “see how you like it” and… I wasn’t infuriated.
Insane that anti-vegan people (who have generally fallen for right-wing propaganda) are so bandwagony that you are getting upvoted for being so very incorrect.
No. They’re not. They made an example to set you up, and you walked right into it. Making their point for them.
Talking shit about someone’s diet isn’t going to make them change their diet.
The only insane part is that you view everyone that isn’t a vegan as “anti-vegan”. Or that everyone that disagrees with you is “anti-vegan”
I don’t think the cashier at my local grocery store is “anti-boardgames” just because they feel annoyed when someone tries to pay with monopoly money.
While I agree that there is a difference between non-vegan and anti-vegan, this is a very strained analogy.
Yep, if namecalling is what prevents someone from going vegan…no it isn’t. It is just an excuse and they were going to continue eating meat with or without the namecalling.
It’s not the name calling it’s that it basically shuts down anyone actually considering it because that’s how humans work. If you say you are bad for doing this the most common reactions are to become defensive or ignore it, both of which are counterproductive to someone changing their mind.
Nah, op is correct. Also no one mentioned right-wing stuff…or politics at all. Why would you bring that up and imply op is right-wing?
not implying they are right wing at all, that wasn’t my intention. Try re-reading it.
So the first comment in this thread did not say they were infuriated? Is that not what I was originally replying to? Is that not why I said I was unbothered by namecalling, to point out the fact that it is not infuriating?
Nope.
They said:
They said “people”, not “I”. They didn’t say “I am infuriated”.
The only information we have about the state of the person you are replying to is that they’re hungry.
deleted by creator
Good one. I’ll respond with “enjoy your colostomy bag, you barbaric animal torturer”.