How much energy I spend on something is irrelevant to this conversation. You’re welcome to walk away any time if you feel you’re spending too much.

My argument is simple:

• it is not safe for the cats.
• there are better, more effective, less expensive, and less impactful methods
• cats are harmful to the environment.

Your arguments are basically “nuhuh” and anti-consumerism screeds that belong elsewhere, and are rather a bit hypocritical considering you have to be engaging in some level of commerce just to be having this “conversation”

Noting you say about consumerism is all that relevant. That doesn’t change anything about three points, and any criticism you’re going to make about humanity being awful also doesn’t change those three points.

I could go on about decision theory, but humanity sucking or another irrelevant whataboutism doesn’t matter here. Those things will remain the same regardless of if you or anyone one else lets the cat out or not. A billionaire is going to do billionaire shit regardless.

You clearly haven’t studied anything, and frankly, your rhetoric is ignorant. Haven’t engaged with anything you’ve said is also a lie.

Go back and read my comments.

By the way, “fake environments” is a pretty fucking ignorant thing to be saying. Urban environments may be dominated by humanity, and transformed to fit us- for better or worse- they’re certainly real, and wild animals are evolving and adapting as they do.

You’re the one who sounds like a radicalized nut job. Keep talking I’m done listening to some one who equates me with white supremacists and Islamic jihadists. (Yes. That’s what “radicalized” means you asswipe.)

There’s a time and a place and a manner for that, and I rather suspect you think perpetuating trauma makes you cool.

It doesn’t. It makes you an asshole.

Also Disney was the one tossing lemmings off a cliff for a documentary. so… not the best way to express that thought.

Radicalized?

lol. That’s right. We’re going to show up and terrorize you. Make you eat tofu and crunchy granola.

There are better, more effective and less expensive methods of control that don’t harm native life nearly as much. But given your a rural farmer raising livestock, you’re insistence cats aren’t that bad is rather telling. Though I’m uncertain as to why you’re unwilling to educate yourself about more modern controls… quite literally better for your bottom line.

You know that pigeons are a type of dove, right?

Sounds rather like you don’t know what you’re talking about and don’t actually have a real argument. Most predatorial birds will take whatever they can without being too picky about it.

Peregrine don’t care if you call it a rock dove or a pigeon, they’ll happily call it dinner. Same as they would any other kind of dove.

this kind of reminds me of wind turbines killing birds. Sure…it’s true…but neither cats nor wind turbines could possibly threaten birds. What threatens birds more profoundly is driving a gas vehicular or subscribing to Netflix so you can watch a documentary about how evil cats are. Or…living in a city in the first place.

Except that cats don’t reduce the overall ecological burden in the way that windmills likely do. That’s a complex topic and I’d say irrelevant.

I could wax philosophical and wonder if it’s a general aversion to witnessing predation that makes people anti cat…but it’s probably just people who have bird feeders being really loud. Hope you win, and have fun with all the rats…another totally natural species lol.

I rather doubt you can, actually. Seeing as your entire arguments so far have been whataboutisms and dismissive personal attacks. Uninspired ones at that.

I’m not anti cat so much as I am “anti-letting cats out.” But you seem to think that being “anti” is a bad thing. It’s not. It’s just semantics. I’m also “anti-letting rats run free” too; and for the same reasons.

Cats also don’t generally go after actual rats, either. They tend to go after mice and voles and other smaller (and safer,) rodents, so the “cats kill rats” isn’t really a good argument either. (Also small lizards, bugs and other smaller critters in general.)

There’s better ways to deal with rats that don’t affect native rodents (or other native wildlife) in the way cats do. And letting cats out to hunt is dangerous for the cat on several fronts.

I wouldn’t let my nephew see that news segment either. Just because it exists in the world doesn’t mean they have to be exposed to it before they’re ready.

Don’t be an ass.

No. Like let’s say one is watching a nature documentary, and they get to the hunting part.

I get why a vegan wouldn’t like watching that, or is shocked. I find it more baffling though when non-vegans are.

Like. Carnivores do it because they have to. It might be brutal, but for them necessary. On the other hand if you eat meat… well. The food comes from somewhere and that might seem sanitized but it’s just as brutal or more so, because of the efficiency.

large owls will happily predate on cats. They’re like flying cats that are even more Murder Hobo-ish.

saying so in front of the daughter is low key savage.

But it always boggles my mind when adults are shocked and horrified that predators …predate. Especially non-vegans.

Like Bro. Hommie needs to eat, and they can’t live off beans. (well, maybe coyotes can.)

It can only be in a setting where humans have completely modified the environment…then you create a scenario where cats become just another pest species.

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. But, like most suburbs do in fact host some songbirds- especially during migration. Parks, wooded areas, etc. Cats don’t really care if it’s a suburban park or a shitty nature preserve that apartments maintain because they bought the land but it’s wetlands (and set it up as a sort of “we bait deer and racoons and shit so your kids can catch rabies and other exciting diseases pet them.”

There are very, very few places that humans haven’t modified in some way. and I’m not sure they even exist at all.

There’s peregrine falcons that hunt doves in downtown minneapolis (and they’re super fun to watch if you can catch them. Animals can and do adapt to humanity’s bullshit. feral cats are more of that bullshit.

Cats should absolutely not be let out. it’s not safe for the cat (Coyotes, owls. diseases. cars. Just getting stuck. and enviromental exposure.) and it’s not safe for other wildlife (songbirds, rodents. etc,)

not to be pedantic or “well ashktually” you…

but, eh… screen protectors in the 90’s were something else.

(Yeah…)

that maria carey song.

if you don’t know which one I’m talking about… we got about a month and half before you’ll be reminded literally everywhere yooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuouououououuouoouououououououououoououououoOOOOOOOuuuUUUUUUooooUoUOUOUOUOOUUOUUOUOUOUOUO go.

don’t eat cookies in the bed…

I was trying to find the “unnecessarily censored” version (“If you eat cookies in bed you’ll get CR**S in the sheets…”) This will have to do.

Edit: how did people not figure out that they were gay? Also, there were a whole lot of other dudes sleeping over…

I mean, the values I hold are subjective, sure. but with an established set of values; you can objectively say “yeah, that’s fucked up”. And I’m fairly sure that I don’t want to meet anyone whose values are so fucked that this is morally acceptable.

sad?

Naw. I find them quite uplifting. I mean… like… i’m not the best at sex, but I’m better than that.