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Personal anecdote, so take it with a grain of salt.
Friend A, very handy and skilled individual, took Thermodynamics in UNI for 2 years, then dropped out. Found job at electronics production facility. Managed to get to a Head Technician position.
Friend B, went to programming 3 years to UNI. Barely managed to finish. Retried math exam multiple times. Though friend A, managed to get a job at the same place as a lower tier machinery operator. Got promoted to technician position after 2 years. Now works as web QC for the same guy who is boss of electronic production facility.
Moral of the story: education, finished or not, existing or not, wont get you far unless you are outgoing and have connections. Also, you either have ability to learn new skills or have said skills and know how to use them. Doesn’t matter how you got them.
As someone who spent the better part of a decade in recruitment. You honestly never know what you get. So you have to take into count as many factors as you can. Education is a commitment, it means you had to go to school, study and prove your knowledge to graduate. Experience is also great, as its more proven skill. Unfortunately both have pit falls in their own ways. The example that pops to mind is i hired two people;one with alot of experience and one with alot of education. The educated one lacked critical problem solving and when a curve ball hit or something that was outside of normalcy she stumbled. The experienced one, always knee what to do on a practical level but lacked detailed workmanship, as she had done jobs so similar for so long instead of following protocol or contacting her supervisor. She would do what she thought was right and stumbled. Experience and education compliment eachother and neither should be undervalued.
Education is a commitment, it means you had to go to school, study and prove your knowledge to graduate.
While it’s the exception, some of the people I’ve met in the field really make me put that into question. I feel like there are institutions that will wave you through provided you pay enough money.
To the originator of that meme, not OP: tell me you’re a boomer, without telling me you’re a boomer.
No matter what the Wall St. Journal says, social science says level of education is still the second most important determinant of quality of life. First of course is the socioeconomic status of your parents. I, personally, wouldn’t trade my master’s degree for a plumbing certificate.
I on the other hand wouldn’t trade my 7 years of software development experience for a master’s degree in the same field. I’d be unemployable in the current market.
Trick is not to do fucking nothing while you get that master’s…if you do? Then that’s on you. I did programing jobs while studying, it’s how i paid for my degree.
If you can’t get something going? Maybe the field isn’t going to work for you to begin with… there’s no silver bullet. Different fields will do different things, but if you do spend 7 years and you truly come out of uni with nothing? You failed or you got ripped off but equally failed to notice for 7 years.
Life is tough. too many go to uni before they’re ready.
Today that’s next to impossible. Comp Sci students are struggling to even find internships. I was listening to a podcast interviewing a student that applied to over 90 internships, only got 2 interviews, and no callbacks. It’s probably the worst time to try to get into tech right now.
The job market is tough these days and uni gives you little to no practical skills.
A lot of people don’t have the bandwidth to work full time AND study full time. That’s 80 hours a week… And most companies hiring entry levels want them to be at the office at the same time as lectures are happening.
If I’d started university instead of work when I did start work, I would probably be getting rejections to job applications at McDonald’s right now.
I got work just fine by not working while studying (still working on said studies of course). Now the market is fucked and there’s not much I can do about it
I don’t see the post as disagreeing with you.
The graphic alone is pointing out what you are saying. Skills alone doesn’t get noticed. So you need a degree to be seen, which gets you a job, which reduces stress, which makes you happy.
But it is sad that it is true. I favor getting a degree, not for the education, but for the 4 years of experience living on ones own and having to handle life that it gives most people. It is also often an important social education. But I don’t like the idea of excluding those who don’t have a degree just because they don’t.
Can be legit. I once got turned down for a job because i didn’t have an mcse despite having over 20 years experience administering windows server and AD (and i’m talking laaaaaarge scale…universities and citrix farms).
That’s what happens when the people doing the hiring don’t know anything about any of the skills required for the role
The amount of people who make it through HR hell and interview for my team, that have a some experience but it’s all bounce around 1y and then have an insane amount of certs, that don’t know what they’re doing is way to high in tech. I’ll take a green horn that wants to learn and has a good foundation before I’ll take someone with bounce around experience and a shit load of certs. Almost all certs are how well can you take tests.
I have literally worked in environs where having certifications and nothing else was grounds for disqualification because it meant you’d been taught dogma, not functionality. My personal fave was the tech who put in a request for graphite dust to clean a power button on workstation because it was sticking. Why was it sticking? Some jackass had spilled coke.
I cleaned it with a chux and closed the ticket.
(i have a STEM degree and work for a catering company lmao)
When I had to hire people, I was much more interested in seeing a portfolio than a degree.
It depends on what the job is though. I definitely want my doctor to have a degree
Most jobs that require degrees rarely require skills/knowledge learned in college/uni aside from sci/tech/engineering because the benefit there is that colleges have millions of dollars of instruments/equipment to fuck around with …
What I see as the value of a degree is that it’s a piece of paper that says that youre likely able to learn and play whatever game a job entails, communicate formally and effectively, be self sufficient, understand/accomplish specified goals with deadlines, and work effectively in a team.
Can someone without a degree have those skills? Totally. Does someone with a degree have all those skills? Not specifically, but they’ve likely been through the ringer for ~4 years and seen a lot of shit they had to face on their own and be accountable for it.
Can someone cheat their way through and be useless, sure, but they frequently found out…or just become managers unfortunately.
Deleted my original reply because I was just splitting hairs. I mostly agree with you, I just don’t like the framing
You don’t need a formal education to be great in your field, but it will help ypu grow immensely.
It depends per case, my friend kept studying while I dropped out (due to private circumstances).
My friend ended up at the same employer for the same pay only years later, he wasn’t a good fit for his field.
A few years later I jumped ship to try and develop myself into a better paid job, I am now an actual crane operator with a beefy wage. My friend is still there making the same low wage.
But he got lucky on a different matter, due to him living at home until 33 he did manage to buy a house with massive savings. I haven’t yet.
This is life, there aren’t any given certainties. Only people who claim their experience will be the same for you.
Who the fuck studies until he’s 33 and earn less than a crane operator
He didn’t study until he was 33, he lived with his parents until he was 33.
It opens doors. Once I finished mine it got me into the rooms for the interviews. It’s nothing more than an additional bonus qualification. I definitely use my knowledge from college in a variety of scenarios whereas my colleagues have experience.
well i grow actual carrots and what you actually get is both
Reminds me of what the guys in construction driving around in lifted trucks with blue lives matter and we the people stickers who’s dads got them a six figure job right out of high school in a union that is run like a white supremisist gang would say
I have only recently became aware of how shitty a lot of construction /plumbing/ electric/ etc union members are as people.
As they all promoted a giant data center in my city that will pollute and harm everyone (even them).
But they think 5 years of work on it is worth selling out their entire community and future generations for.
They spoke at our town hall meeting.
“Me me me, I want I need I deserve”.
What a bunch of tools.
I told another friend of mine about the experience, he’s a mechanic and shares my general values but he deals with a lot of those types due to his occupation.
He said that’s how they all are. They’ve always been like that.
I was surprised because I thought union people understand why there are unions.
Surely they would be against “the man”.
But they are not. And seem incredibly gullible and selfish. If they turn a profit, fuck everyone else.
Should have a third, normal looking carrot with “having skills and a degree.”
It’s pretty funny reading the comments because honestly I would generally agree with the meme. But I’m coming at this from the perspective of a systems administrator and when it comes to dealing with networking and security most of the people I see coming out of college with degrees don’t know a goddamn thing. Their courses are like 10 years out of date and not even remotely relevant to the real world but because they spent so much money on getting it they are very inflexible about changing how they were taught.
Meanwhile when I find somebody out on the street who just has had a passion for computers since they were like five they tend to be extremely on top of current security and networking needs and more than willing to be flexible and change how things are done when the situation calls for it.
I kinda agree, but mostly because western universities are being run like businesses first and educational institutions a distant second or third, and this is the inevitable outcome. Idk if other cultures have the same problem with their universities.
It’s more lucrative to sell degrees as status symbols and career checkboxes, than to sell education. This changes both their target market demographics, and their funding priorities.
elites love to paywall access to the upper middle class
Hey it’s not just the west. India’s degree farms are comedic legends.
Yeah I don’t wanna exclude other places for having shit universities for whatever reason - I just wanna comment on why it sucks in “the west” (by which I largely mean USA, Canada, western Europe).
Their courses are like 10 years out of date
10 years is a pretty generous estimate
Idk where you are but my experience but my lectures were always about the last trends and updated every summer. My experience is the opposite : you learn the latest tech doing your degree learning git-ops workflow and containerisation to work on VMs and Jenkins
I just graduated and for me they didn’t even teach Git and expected you to do a bunch of your assignments in Java 8 or an old version of C/C++ (for which they taught terrible practices) depending on the professor. Some of it was Windows-centric and others needed to run on a machine that still uses CentOS 7. Also usually they wanted the program done in a single file.
Skills = Makes a better soup
Degree = Makes more green
I just finished my CS Bachelors and overall most of it felt like a massive fucking waste of time, especially since I suck at learning from lectures and also the content was like 15 years out of date. For the few classes that actually seemed worthwhile and interesting, I’m trying to figure out who the fuck is hiring for these skills that’s not military-adjacent. I did end up earning some Masters credits through a fast track program, but I don’t think it’s worth continuing at this point.
You can generally use CS as a springboard into most tech related fields. Where its most helpful is probably research and academia.
If programming is even remotely interesting for you, getting a low paying junior dev job will probably teach you more and you can use that as a springboard into more software dev, data, AI, cybersecurity, networking… As long as you are willing to learn on the job and push yourself forward.I’m legit interested, not trying to be rude – where I can I find a low paying junior dev job??
It seems like the only places hiring are looking for Senor devs or Project leads, AI evaporated all the entry level positions.
In the US, the only places I’ve seen that are both interviewing and hiring entry level are the new grad rotational programs at the bigger companies in finance, healthcare, and logistics. Fair warning, the tech stack is a hit or a miss in those kinds of industries, heavily team dependent
Smaller companies usually. They may call it something else than junior developer.
Field Technician, Software Engineer, Field Engineer are all titles at my job and 75% of their work is coding, scripting, or configuration but we have few quality applicants because of bad titles.
I do have programming skills. Most of the job postings I’ve seen were shitty JavaScript/Dotnet app development or Windows-centric IT slopjobs that pay as much as McDonald’s and is probably getting taken over by AI at this point anyways. For lower-level programming like C++/Rust which is what I’m more interested in, I’ve barely found anything outside of MIC companies and the one that wasn’t was Israeli-based. I do spend most of my free time working on Nix-based projects and tinkering with Linux, so I wonder what’s related to that. I’m also considering a PhD, but I just learned that even the research at my university closest to my interests is heavily tied to military/MIC funding. If it’s actually true that the only organizations that give a shit about quality code are the ones that commit genocides, that would really fucking suck.
All I can add is that I worked IT for 9 years getting shit pay. Despite the fact that I spent most of my day writing code, nobody willing to hire me as a developer with an appropriate salary.
I got my degree by going to school at night after my day job. Within 3 months, I had doubled my salary with a ‘real’ developer job. I made more progress in 3 months than I did in 9 years at being able to support myself.
And no I don’t use anything I learned at UNI. I knew how to write code.
Although this is stupid you wouldn’t believe the amount of people I work with who are “highly educated” who just have the worst work process / ideas / work ethic.
The past two years of my life working in corporate has dramatically changed my overall views on average human intelligence.
