• Caves_of_steel@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    i dont see why even communism would mean there are no free markets: in the most basic definitiv communism is (economically) a system in which the working people control the means of production. this could e.g. be achieved if all companies were work coops - thus workers controlled the companies and therefore the means of production if we dont change anything else there will still be a free market

    • Mika@sopuli.xyz
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      6 months ago

      Uh-huh. How do we define means of production? Can I come to your home and take your PC? I mean that’s means of productions alright. So it shouldn’t be privatized, and thus, traded.

      (are we seriously discussing communism supporting free market? are we seriously considering communism as a sane ideology? what next, try nazism, because real nazism was never tried?)

      • balderdash@lemmy.zipOP
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        6 months ago

        The means of production are the tools, machinery, factories, land, etc., required to make goods. In ye olden times artisans/tradesmen/farmers would own their own tools (i.e., means to produce goods). However, since the industrial revolution, the craftsman have been put out of business. They cannot compete with machine production. So this is where we need to make the distinction between personal and private property.

        Personal property are things you own for your individual use. Your house, clothes, toothbrush, etc. Private property is means of production used to make a profit for the person who invested (i.e., capitalist). Communism seeks to put the workers in charge of the workforce (i.e., workplace democracy). It also aims to abolish class, private property, the need for money/wages, and ultimately the state itself.

        what next, try nazism, because real nazism was never tried

        This is a poor comparison. The communists want to erase hierarchies of class, race, gender, etc., whereas the Nazis wanted to reinforce them. Need I remind you that the communist killed millions of Nazis in WW2?

        • Mika@sopuli.xyz
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          6 months ago

          Communists killed millions without any wars.

          PCs are needed to create lots of different goods. Where do we put them? The classification is vague.