In terms of how close American society was to fascism it’s actually worse, so congrats on doing negative work I guess.
You’re absolutely right, in a time when the CIA and FBI were both utterly off their leash, repression of left-wing movements and unions was rampant, domestic assassinations were engineered by the government, and brutalization of minorities and dissidents was much more widespread, back when marital rape was legal and women couldn’t open bank accounts in their own name, there was less fascism. Thank you for your brilliant take on Nixon’s America. What’s next? Perhaps you’d like to proclaim how much more democratic Woodrow Wilson’s America was than the modern day? Or how much less slavery there was in Buchanan’s America?
You’re absolutely right, in a time when the CIA and FBI were both utterly off their leash, repression of left-wing movements and unions was rampant, domestic assassinations were engineered by the government, and brutalization of minorities and dissidents was much more widespread, back when marital rape was legal and women couldn’t open bank accounts in their own name, there was less fascism.
Literally yes, because while these things are symptoms of fascism they’re not necessarily causes of it. It’s not any easier to be fascist under these circumstances than it is in the modern day; the only change is the specific kind of liberal commie shit the fascists want to do away with. Here’s (a non-exhaustive list of) what does make it easier to engineer a fascist takeover: economic and social uncertainty, weakness of leftwing movements, trust in democracy and institutions, centralization of power and unwillingness or inability to hold leaders accountable. I trust you can plainly tell that today’s America (and even 2024 America) is worse than Nixon’s America on all of these fronts, but if not then for one ask yourself why there’s not a modern Watergate. It’s not like either side of the isle is lacking in material.
Perhaps you’d like to proclaim how much more democratic Woodrow Wilson’s America was than the modern day?
That one was definitely pretty fascist, but also “fascist” and “democratic” aren’t opposite; you can have non-fascist authoritarianism and fascist democracy (though that tends to pretty quickly collapse into fascist authoritarianism). Nixon’s admin was up to some pretty authoritarian stuff, but it wasn’t fascist authoritarian stuff.
iterally yes, because while these things are symptoms of fascism they’re not necessarily causes of it. It’s not any easier to be fascist under these circumstances than it is in the modern day; the only change is the specific kind of liberal commie shit the fascists want to do away with. Here’s (a non-exhaustive list of) what does make it easier to engineer a fascist takeover: economic and social uncertainty, weakness of leftwing movements, trust in democracy and institutions, centralization of power and unwillingness or inability to hold leaders accountable. I trust you can plainly tell that today’s America (and even 2024 America) is worse than Nixon’s America on all of these fronts, but if not then for one ask yourself why there’s not a modern Watergate. It’s not like either side of the isle is lacking in material.
… you think the late 60s and early 70s didn’t have massive economic and social uncertainty, weakness of left-wing movements, low trust in democracy and institutions, centralization of power and unwillingness or inability to hold leaders accountable?
Fuck’s sake, a national election was blatantly stolen in the 60s, twice, and no one batted a fucking eye.
Take off the rose-tinted glasses.
Nixon’s admin was up to some pretty authoritarian stuff, but it wasn’t fascist authoritarian stuff.
… you think the late 60s and early 70s didn’t have massive economic and social uncertainty,
That was when single-income households were a thing and you could pay for college with a summer job, so I’m gonna say “not enough for a fascist takeover.” “Boohoo black people can have rights” is fundamentally different from “I am one missed paycheck away from eviction and homelessness.”
weakness of left-wing movements,
Yes I do, duh. This was coming out of the Civil Rights Movement and heading into the Vietnam War protests. The CIA and FBI were off the leash specifically because leftwing movements were a real threat to the government’s interests. Compare to the modern day when most of the population’s idea of a radical leftist is Bernie Sanders.
centralization of power and unwillingness or inability to hold leaders accountable?
Again, Watergate. None of these factors have to be perfect or even good in an objective sense not to lead to fascism, but the decline is very noticeable.
That was when single-income households were a thing and you could pay for college with a summer job, so I’m gonna say “not enough for a fascist takeover.” “Boohoo black people can have rights” is fundamentally different from “I am one missed paycheck away from eviction and homelessness.”
God, I love the modern day, when even our leftists believe in MAGA nostalgia.
Yes I do, duh. This was coming out of the Civil Rights Movement and heading into the Vietnam War protests. The CIA and FBI were off the leash specifically because leftwing movements were a real threat to the government’s interests.
You’re fucking kidding me.
The CIA had been off its leash since the Eisenhower administration, and the 1970s is when a wider perception in government that they might be a problem emerged. The FBI had been developing a much darker edge than intended under Hoover’s entire tenure as FBI head.
Would you like to elaborate how the Civil Rights Movement was against the Federal government’s interests? Or how the Vietnam War protests were a serious threat to government policy, when Nixon’s entire policy was based around extricating the US from Vietnam without looking ‘weak’ to the base?
Compare to the modern day when most of the population’s idea of a radical leftist is Bernie Sanders.
… would you like to cite any major politician in the Nixon era as radical as Sanders? This not being an exhortation of how radical Sanders is, but a condemnation of how conservative the 60s and 70s actually were? The closest you would get is McGovern (who was very liberal, and not even vaguely socialist), and he was crushed in a landslide.
Again, Watergate. None of these factors have to be perfect or even good in an objective sense not to lead to fascism, but the decline is very noticeable.
The only reason Nixon was confronted was because the Republicans felt like they had lost control of the narrative. He wasn’t confronted by the GOP when the news first broke - it took literal years. If Trump is confronted for losing control of the narrative and replaced with Vance, will you think that fascism in the US has been ‘successfully’ curbed?
You’re absolutely right, in a time when the CIA and FBI were both utterly off their leash, repression of left-wing movements and unions was rampant, domestic assassinations were engineered by the government, and brutalization of minorities and dissidents was much more widespread, back when marital rape was legal and women couldn’t open bank accounts in their own name, there was less fascism. Thank you for your brilliant take on Nixon’s America. What’s next? Perhaps you’d like to proclaim how much more democratic Woodrow Wilson’s America was than the modern day? Or how much less slavery there was in Buchanan’s America?
Literally yes, because while these things are symptoms of fascism they’re not necessarily causes of it. It’s not any easier to be fascist under these circumstances than it is in the modern day; the only change is the specific kind of liberal commie shit the fascists want to do away with. Here’s (a non-exhaustive list of) what does make it easier to engineer a fascist takeover: economic and social uncertainty, weakness of leftwing movements, trust in democracy and institutions, centralization of power and unwillingness or inability to hold leaders accountable. I trust you can plainly tell that today’s America (and even 2024 America) is worse than Nixon’s America on all of these fronts, but if not then for one ask yourself why there’s not a modern Watergate. It’s not like either side of the isle is lacking in material.
That one was definitely pretty fascist, but also “fascist” and “democratic” aren’t opposite; you can have non-fascist authoritarianism and fascist democracy (though that tends to pretty quickly collapse into fascist authoritarianism). Nixon’s admin was up to some pretty authoritarian stuff, but it wasn’t fascist authoritarian stuff.
… you think the late 60s and early 70s didn’t have massive economic and social uncertainty, weakness of left-wing movements, low trust in democracy and institutions, centralization of power and unwillingness or inability to hold leaders accountable?
Fuck’s sake, a national election was blatantly stolen in the 60s, twice, and no one batted a fucking eye.
Take off the rose-tinted glasses.
…
That was when single-income households were a thing and you could pay for college with a summer job, so I’m gonna say “not enough for a fascist takeover.” “Boohoo black people can have rights” is fundamentally different from “I am one missed paycheck away from eviction and homelessness.”
Yes I do, duh. This was coming out of the Civil Rights Movement and heading into the Vietnam War protests. The CIA and FBI were off the leash specifically because leftwing movements were a real threat to the government’s interests. Compare to the modern day when most of the population’s idea of a radical leftist is Bernie Sanders.
Yes and it’s not even a contest.
Again, Watergate. None of these factors have to be perfect or even good in an objective sense not to lead to fascism, but the decline is very noticeable.
God, I love the modern day, when even our leftists believe in MAGA nostalgia.
You’re fucking kidding me.
The CIA had been off its leash since the Eisenhower administration, and the 1970s is when a wider perception in government that they might be a problem emerged. The FBI had been developing a much darker edge than intended under Hoover’s entire tenure as FBI head.
Would you like to elaborate how the Civil Rights Movement was against the Federal government’s interests? Or how the Vietnam War protests were a serious threat to government policy, when Nixon’s entire policy was based around extricating the US from Vietnam without looking ‘weak’ to the base?
… would you like to cite any major politician in the Nixon era as radical as Sanders? This not being an exhortation of how radical Sanders is, but a condemnation of how conservative the 60s and 70s actually were? The closest you would get is McGovern (who was very liberal, and not even vaguely socialist), and he was crushed in a landslide.
The only reason Nixon was confronted was because the Republicans felt like they had lost control of the narrative. He wasn’t confronted by the GOP when the news first broke - it took literal years. If Trump is confronted for losing control of the narrative and replaced with Vance, will you think that fascism in the US has been ‘successfully’ curbed?