It’s something I struggle with. Some bad news comes out about some public persona doing something shitty and they get cancelled. But sometimes I really struggle with giving up the things they’ve made because I like them. There are also occasions where the person has been accused of something and it doesn’t seem true to me, or I think they’re genuinely sorry and have been punished enough, and the context isn’t being considered.
What do you think? Who do you feel conflicted about enjoying?
Kevin Spacey. He’s just such a good actor, I like every movie he’s in. The first season of House of Cards was amazing too.
Neil Gaiman. I’m extremely depressed that he’s actually a POS, and because I loved his work so much, I’m conflicted. His work itself seemed to have well interrogated values woven into it’s fiber, but I guess you never can tell.
Edit: really fucking bummed about Red Hot Chili Peppers too
man, this was the worst. but he’s not getting another dollar from me, the bastard. at least he’s not fighting Terry Pratchett’s estate over Good Omens.
speaking of which, Terry seems to have been just a great guy and was better than Neil anyway. It’s really helped me to let Neil go.
Helllll yeah! Terry Pratchett, but also I’m keeping ALL celebrity at arms length without heavy vetting at this point
Same with his ex? Wife Amanda Palmer. I love the Dresden Dolls and she’s been very inspirational but knowing she was in on it was fucked up.
This broke my damn heart. His work seemed to have the values I hold dear and be so insightful and then… he’s getting in the bath with girls who depend on him for housing.
I am thinking that power corrupts. I came up with that but you can use that phrase if you want.
Pretty sure the Anthony Keides stuff was well known for decades. It’s in his autobiography that was published like 20 years ago or something.
He’s always been the worst part of that band
It has been! That’s why it’s even more fucking disgusting to me. It isn’t well known or talked about, fucking bastards just get a fucking pass sometimes and I hate it
I remember the moment news broke out, that I just got rid of all books he authored. The Sandman graphic novels, Coraline, American Gods, Stardust .etc
All I was looking forward to reading someday but nope.
If you had donated them, to a thrift store or maybe a library, it would’ve kept someone else from buying a new copy, which would give him money.
I haven’t gotten rid of mine but they’re all stowed away in a corner.
That’s what I’m struggling with. Throwing his content in the trash regardless of content 😩 I got sandman 1 omnibus for Christmas last year, ughhhhhh
If you want to feel better about ditching things, just donate them.
I have a theory that all writers are somewhat hypocritical. As an amateur writer myself (I write fan fiction and am also working on original work I hope to get published eventually), I find sometimes the moral messages I try to weave into my work are sometimes messages that I myself am struggling to live up to and writing is a way of trying to work through that
kiedis from scar tissue? or is there something new i missed?
Yeah, his memoir or whatever details him knowingly committing statutory of a 14 yo girl.
Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert. I have several of his print books and still enjoy reading them; ditto his old cartoons. They really spoke to me years ago, as a cubicle-coder.
hey, read the books you already own all you want. that doesn’t put anymore money in his pocket.
being “cancelled” doesn’t mean we stick our fingers in our ears and act like it didn’t happen. it just means being conscientious about funding the lives of people who are actively making the world a worse place.
this is a critical detail that I think people often miss
I think it’s wild that he’s the same man who made Dilbert trans and feminist in his tv show finale and it actually got kind of sincere.
‘The Dilbert Principle’ is a great book. It’s a shame he threw all that goodwill away.
I stopped liking dilbert when it became obvious that dilbert was becoming a side character so he could prop up PHB. Anything I’ve seen since then is just insufferable.
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It always gets me that Matthew Broderick killed two people in a car crash and got off with a $100 fine. I love Ferris Bueller’s day off, and I think he’s really talented, but like this happened just after that movie, and he just did not seem to be held to account for it.
This is going to get buried, but I miss Bill Cosby, or rather my mental model of him before all that nastiness came out.
Al Franken
Neil Gaiman. I’m afraid there won’t be a third season of Good Omens.
Bill Cosby is a monster, but his stand-up special “Himself” is a master class on comedic story-telling.
Privileged white folk really don’t realize how much good Bill Cosby has done for poor kids. He contributed an insane amount to the community. He supported schools programs financially and helped a whole generation of black folk.
And when the news came out, you better believe we were all in the 5 stages of grief.
Just a complete 180 on his entire body of work. Like finding out Batman used homeless people for target practice. Or Jesus was a sith lord.
The only respect I’m ever going to give Bill Cosby, is how he stood up and criticized the black community for their ghetto-like behavior and how they continued blaming the white man for all of their problems. That took balls and only he could have done it because he’s black as well.
So uh I’m guessing that aligns with your beliefs. Please explain to me how white people didn’t fuck over black people? Obviously not all problems black people face are from white people, and obviously not ever single white person has fucked over a black person, but please explain how white people aren’t responsible for a lot of the problems black people go through right now please?
I’ve got a few pretty big counter examples of how they did right here that I’m sure you’d find interesting.
Excuse you? What I said did not speak of anything of what my beliefs are. You are just assuming in a baseless manner. That is in of itself, a huge problem with society today so thanks for being a demonstration of that problem.
Obviously not all problems black people face are from white people
So you went on this entire tirade of rambling and you say that snippet. How about you project some sources that example that little detail, instead of virtue-signaling the way that you have?
I bet you won’t. You’ll just take all of the virtuous self-patting upvotes of your little rant like you have, and provide me nothing in return, just petty downvotes. That’s exactly how I expect you to behave.
How come every time someone points out obviously racist coded stuff, the response is “well I didn’t directly say what my opinion was so how dare you, you’ll never know” like we don’t have reading comprehension and dog whistles.
Then you hone in on the one thing that might validate your blatantly obvious opinion, and tell me to give you sources, instead of actually answering my question.
Then you throw a tantrum saying I won’t give you what you want, and that if I don’t give you what you want, you’re right.
Even though you didn’t have the balls to answer my question.
Here’s a surprise for you, three examples of Problems Black People Can Have That Have Nothing To Do With White People, all of which I can personally attest to:
Black person cheated on their black spouse and they got divorced.
Black person’s car got a flat.
Black person’s favorite cereal was out at the grocery store.
Those problems don’t have anything to do with white people. But some related problems in those situations do.
The judge ordered way harsher child support of the black husband than a white husband would’ve had to deal with.
Cops harassed and threatened to arrest the black person trying to change a tire instead of offering help.
The person at the register accused the black person of stealing for no reason.
So yeah. Three examples. Bet you don’t have the balls to answer my question though.
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He was a holier than thou hypocrite. Dude had been drugging and raping women for years before he got on his high horse about that.
Fuck him.
It’s a struggle sometimes, but I think it’s the only real control we have.
It’s a case by case basis for me. Some actor being in a movie I like isn’t a big deal to me, but when someone has like huge creative control over something it’s like a visceral repulsion to me. I don’t want to take a piece of media into my experience with the subtext that the author touches kids or something. It’s not even just that I know these people do bad things, it’s that personal views shape how people make stories etc, and I’m not fond of putting that into my psyche. If they do some fucked up shit in the book, I want to be able to know it’s because this character is evil, not because the author is saying this is a normal healthy thing to do.
RHCP sucks because I think it’s pretty good music, and I was really into them when I was a teen, but given everything I know about them now it makes it impossible to enjoy their stuff now.
Die Antwoord. The music tickles a particular part of my brain, but they’re accused of some truly heinous shit.
I have a weird interest in South African rock music. I would buy SA CD compilations on ebay and discogs Nd listen to all the cool SA bands. One of them had a track by an artist called Max Normal. The track fucking slapped. No one in the US has heard of these SA artists I listen to. One day I mention my interest to a coworker and he said something like “oh man, you should check out Die Antwood.” So, I did. I’m reading about Die Antwood and I had a holy fuck moment. They were the same artist on that compilation CD. They changed their name to Die Antwood. The artist of an obscure track on a compilation CD I have went on to become an internationally known artist. I also found out they are pretty shitty people. Life is crazy sometimes.
Louis CK. He was my favorite comedian, but the first special after ‘cancellation’ had all the hallmarks of a washed up has been with grievances. But he’s been back to his old form lately, and I still consider him the best comic of his generation.
Phil Spector produced some of the best music of the twentieth century, including one of a handful of bearable Christmas albums in existence. Also he’s a fucking murderer. So… bit of a mixed bag, there.
If you feel like you can only like things made by people who haven’t done anything wrong, ever, you’re left with Mr Rogers and that’s about it. Liking something someone made isn’t an endorsement of their actions or opinions. Unfortunately we live in a hyper capitalistic society so buying their stuff can help them with their shitty opinions, so don’t buy new Harry Potter stuff, but feel free to enjoy it.
After being burned by a dozen creators, I find it safer for my own emotional well-being to just assume all things beautiful and evocative are made by someone who is secretly a terrible person.
Saves me from the disappointment of finding out later.
I’m constantly surprised when it turns out someone famous isn’t getting up to some bad shit.
Anti-Flag.
Absolutely sucks who Justin Sane turned out to be, but the music the group made together are still absolute bangers.
