• TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    45
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    Keeps’ blaming the base for the candidate staying pro-genocide. Precisely what mechanism should be be used to “move” 6 million voters on their anti-genocide position?

    Pretty bad look. Makes you look like a genocide apologist. You should just stop.

      • piefood@feddit.online
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        21
        ·
        1 day ago

        She wasn’t the only other choice. I had 4 choices, and a write in option. If you wanted the Democrats to continue to move to the right, you can just say that instead of making up excuses.

          • piefood@feddit.online
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            1 day ago

            How many did Harris lose by? Was it enough that 3rd party votes mattered?

            I didn’t vote against Genocide and The War Machine because I thought we would win. I voted against them because they are evil.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              16 hours ago

              I didn’t vote against Genocide and The War Machine

              Keep desperately trying to convince yourself of that.

            • SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              11
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 day ago

              I’m just wondering if they had a chance.

              If they lost by a couple percentage points it’s a lot different then if they only got a couple tenths of a point but I can tell by your dodging of the question what the answer is.

              • piefood@feddit.online
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                1 day ago

                Of course they never had a chance to win. Americans care more about their team winning, then they care about stopping things like Genocide or War. Always have, and probably always will.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        39
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        You keep trying to blame the voters. Harris was the problem. Blaming the voters (which you did in real time in 2024) handed the election to Trump. You can’t, nor should you “move” 6 million people onto the wrong side of history by asking them to support a genocide. You might be able to move a candidate. Blaming voters is a total and complete distraction.

        You (and those who adopt the same strategy as you) are the reason we ended up with Trump. And this toxic, destructive mindset of yours needs to be buried so we can actually have a chance of stopping Trump in the future.

        • Zeke@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          39
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          1 day ago

          Voting red or not voting is still the reason Trump got into office. He supports the genocide, but ok, HaRriS BaD. Note I don’t like Democrats either, but I don’t agree with throwing votes away because of one issue that was worse on the other side. The people who didn’t vote or voted the other way supported genocide by letting Trump win.

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            23
            ·
            1 day ago

            But this is entirely the point. Blaming the voters gives you the opportunity to wash your hands and absolve blame, but it doesn’t get us any closer to winning the election in 2024. Not now, and not then, in 2024, when it was happening in real time.

            There was one way to beat Trump in 2024: Get more votes than him. Its obvious now that the argument “less bad” wasn’t good enough to convince 6 million people to show up. We ran the experiment. We got the data. We know the outcomes.

            If you, or SatansMaggotyCumFart, or anyone else wants to keep defending this approach, the onus is on you to provide a mechanism for how this argument gets Harris 6 million more votes.

            Satan’ thinks they have an axe to grind because they were couching their rhetoric with the expectation of failure from the onset. The argument that “less bad” should be good enough is bad politics and doesn’t work because it doesn’t convince any new voter who didn’t already accept that argument to show up. The more that argument shows up, the more people think that this failed approach to electoralism has legs, the further we get from actually being able to beat the Trumps of the world.

            Harris offered voters nothing, and we were quite literally begging her to throw a fucking crumb of rhetoric saying she would stop arms to Israel, because it was obvious to anyone with eyes that she was going to lose the election if she didn’t move on this issue in August. And Satans approach to that point was to push those who were critical of kamala FURTHER out of the party; basically the same treatment the DNC gave to Palestinians at the convention.

            Don’t be like Satan. We need to actually win, and Satan’s approach will lose us another election. Criticize candidates, intensely. FORCE them into positions that can actually get them elected. Demand that candidates move to where their voters are, because there is quite literally no mechanism to move 6 million voters into supporting genocide, and if you promote that, you are a bad person.

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          16 hours ago

          It really must be difficult to do the mental gymnastics required to absolve yourself from the key role that you played in the rise of American fascism… I mean, I get why. It must feel awful to know the truth.

          So blame everyone but yourself.

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            12 hours ago

            So what exactly is it you think you are accusing me of? Not voting sufficiently hard enough for Kamala? That I argued too strongly that Kamala wasn’t winning based on the data I had available and what analysis and inference I could develop?

            Or that I argued that she needed to do something different in her campaign to win based on where the electorate was at?

            Do you genuinely believe that because people pointed out that Kamala was running a disastrous campaign, that this was why she lost?

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            28
            ·
            edit-2
            1 day ago

            Good. Maybe go away from ever commenting again too.

            {What do you think the point of reposting hard evidence of your toxicity is?}

    • piefood@feddit.online
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      1 day ago

      I always find it telling when people blame the voters that couldn’t stomach voting for genocide, rather than blaming their candidates for chosing genocide.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        1 day ago

        Its extremely telling; but its also like, brainlet level stupid:

        Their argument is that 6 million voters needed to vote differently, on their own. Like think the process through. How the fuck do you make that happen? What is the mechanism that changes 6 million voters minds?

        There is no mechanism that changes the mind of 6 million people. That’s not how elections work. Period. And keeping insisting that the voters “just needed to vote differently”, ok, but how? How does SatansMaggotyCumFart change 6 million minds on the matter by just repeating “Trump worse”?

        You can change the mind of one person (the candidate, Harris). We could have moved Harris if she knew she didn’t have enough of the bases support on this issue. But Blue MAGA/ BNMW through the entire country to the wolves so they could wash their hands of responsibility.

        • piefood@feddit.online
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 day ago

          I agree with you mostly, except for this part:

          We could have moved Harris if she knew she didn’t have enough of the bases support on this issue.

          I’m pretty sure the polling was out already, and she knew that she didn’t have support. But she cared more about money and building out the War Machine, than she cared about winning the election.

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 day ago

            than she cared about winning the election.

            Like, I want to believe she wanted to win, but because of the BNMW/ Blue MAGA, and the censorship across media that resulted of this (I mean we saw it here, directly), she didn’t think she needed to earn the bases support.