It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I’ve been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie “ideology” for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create…festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I’ve personally seen it over and over and over again. All the “Just go back to Reddit” or “just another lib Redditor refugee” comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee’s shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/“They didn’t perfectly agree with me” instance. They call feddit.org a “Nazi Zionist” instance for the crime…of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law…
I haven’t looked to see if they’ve started any “celebratory” posts about Dubvee yet and I also don’t really want to, if they’re there, I already know what they’re going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has “metastasized”. And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now…now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don’t think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs’ instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I’ve been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I’ve got some thick ass skin so I’ll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I’ll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I’ll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with “normie proof” onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I’ll flood this place with “normies” LMAO
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Now I would really like to make a deepdive and see how did blackskyweb.xyz manage to become huge moderating force in AT proto(bluesky).
I was surprised that over those 2 years bluesky is kinda selfhostable. Maybe decision to make instances more important than people has doomed ActivityPub to become a toxic cesspool. I still remember how technology connections has resigned from mastodon over toxicity.
I saw this toxicity at the beginning and changed how I interact with the network. No controversial topics whatsoever, no OC memes as they will be bashed. Now I just repost stuff from tumblr and comment here and there.
Maybe a naive question, but how does Bluesky manage user bans from different instances? Is there a way to federate bans over the whole network?
Bluesky’s network topology doesn’t work like APub’s, so this question doesn’t really make sense. Like, what is the ‘instance’ here? The relay? The users’ PDS? The AppView? I suppose the PDS provider could ban a user and this would then be indexed by the relay(s). We can argue all day about how decentralised the AT Protocol is, but Bluesky the platform makes no effort to be decentralised*.
* By decentralised I mean a platform controlled by multiple independent actors, a multi-stakeholder platform. Even if you use a non-Bluesky the company relay + app view, it’s still centralised around whoever is hosting those.
I knew by asking the question we would get into the Bluesky components questions 😅
Let’s say tomorrow the feddit.uk team decides to self host a PDS provider.
Is it possible for the feddit.uk team to ban someone, or can that only be done by Bluesky? Would that ban be federated to other PDS providers?
Edit: I feel like Bluesky has the same issue than the Fediverse has with federated bans and alts, but because everybody uses Bluesky’s centralized components, nobody notices.
Let’s say tomorrow the feddit.uk team decides to self host a PDS provider.
Is it possible for the feddit.uk team to ban someone, or can that only be done by Bluesky? Would that ban be federated to other PDS providers?
We could stop hosting the account and purge it from our DB, though IRRC the user can migrate to a new host and have Bluesky populate that with their old data, because everything is public on AT and is kept in Bluesky’s relay (I think this is a bad thing, just fyi). The user would still be banned from the various labelers as these operate (I presume) on the accounts DID, which should stay the same across migration. PDS providers don’t talk to each other, PDS don’t do much so don’t really need to. They just store data.
Edit: I feel like Bluesky has the same issue than the Fediverse has with federated bans and alts, but because everybody uses Bluesky’s centralized components, nobody notices.
Bluesky does genuinely have some better moderation tools, labelers are something I think even us on Lemmy/PieFed/whatever might want to look at. But these aren’t magic and there’s plenty of toxicity on Bluesky, Bluesky just gives you some more tools to help manage it. When Mastodon gets the ability to disable replies I think will help a lot.
Thank you
It’s crazy that I’ve been on Lemmy for like 2 years and I think I’ve encountered direct toxic behavior only a handful of times. Obviously I’m aware of the trolls and problematic instances, but those can easily be blocked.
Am I the asshole?
Damn, you must have blocked a lot of stuff.
You can be the judge of that
Why did you block my true love 😭
I usually don’t get bothered by people on the Internet, but holy fucking shit how I was absolutely going crazy over the fact that people unironically shill North Korea.
I’m Korean. We are under constant threat of shit balloons and missiles. They punish people and their family members for trying to leave the country. How can one possibly look at that and say, “Yep, that’s fine”?
It’s more ugly that they are also implicitly saying that you, as a Korean, should just become the plaything of Kim Jong Un. That really you should actually just become a puppet of them.
Said safe and sound somewhere from a bedroom in the USA.
B-b-but on the other hand, someone got a splinter somewhere in your country, so… you know… bOtH sIdEs SaMe?
(logic is not their strong suite, so much as loudly repeating something until people stop arguing back, at which point they declare victory, feel emboldened, and push even further)
I’ll repeat a few things I’ve been saying about this. To keep it
short:less verbose:What people call “toxicity” online relies heavily on irrationality, from the aggressor and/or the target. And politics raises the stakes of everything, so irrationality + political engagement is specially prone to generate catty behaviour, name calling, uncalled combativeness, and all that crap.
Now look at social media. You’ll see irrationals infesting every platform. Reddit in special encourages it, and most lemmings are from Reddit.
Why this matters: because I believe people here are focusing too much on .ml and Hexbear, without noticing the problem would still persist without them.
From the day those protests started Lemmy was far far worse than Reddit for anyone but further left progressives. I have fat more often been called a Nazi here for like warm takes. It’s a spectrum and Lemmy is definitely a far more toxic place then reddit is if you don’t agree.
yep yep! ive been called a nazi because I psoted about the Green Party lol
I know exactly nothing about the green party but like Jesus fuck you’d think leftists would have learned that’s an important word to stop diluting given many of us are living under a system slipping into actual full blown fascism and it’s an increasingly big problem globally
Its so painfully harmful to leftist causes to go around accusing your fellow leftists of being a nazi for not being your exact flavor of left. We all need to cut that shit out and grow some emotional and interpersonal maturity.
Thats because in general the “leftists” that occupy spaces like ml arent really leftists at all, they are anti-western idologues. You will very rarely see them posting about things left wing people tend to care about like workers rights, cost of living, housing or things like that. They are far more interested in geopolitics, especially on issues where they can make “west bad” posts.
Indeed, without ml hexbear and grad those irrationals would spread without reason to other instances, turning everything into a cesspool. And luckily we have the tools to not engage with them, block them or outright defed from their host.
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.ml has/had a lot of entirely normal people as a lot of people went to it before and during the reddit exodus and set up communities there, myself included.
A lot of them have since left. If they choose to inhabit a Nazi bar though, that is entirely their choice? But I should have the ability to have my own choices too, and not shift the Overton window by having to be on an instance that federates with them.
They won’t, I think many are testing the waters with PieFed for an ultimate move over, but I have a feeling for the ones that matter *cough* .world *cough* it would likely be a months long process, that ultimately will arrive too late.
https://piefed.world/ already exists and people can import their subscriptions from Lemmy. Not sure what more you expect them to do? Shut down their Lemmy instance?
Well defederating from .ml would have gone far dessalines being butthurt about it be damned, but at this point, idk probably wouldn’t matter anymore
Wish I could easily block all .ml communities (not the comments and posts that .ml users make on other instances, I want to be able to downvote and report them if other non-tankie users can see them).
You can. Just block the instance.
(not the comments and posts that .ml users make on other instances, I want to be able to downvote and report them if other non-tankie users can see them).
That’s how instance blocking works at the user level right now. It only blocks communities on the instance, not users.
