Ah, I’m guessing you’re American, and you think that democrats are the left and republicans are the right? The democrats are actually center-right, they’re all about capitalism and protecting the interests of the ruling class.
The true left vs. right dichotomy actually IS the class war. The working class of the left is fighting against the ruling class, and the working class on the right is unfortunately blinded by propaganda and brainwashing into supporting the interests of the ruling class. As leftists, we need to help those on the right break free of their mind prisons by having conversations just like this one. Solidarity is everything.
Leftists in the United States historically haven’t been represented by mainstream politics exactly for that reason, and there has been centuries of anti-leftist propaganda in the US, that’s because leftists actually pose a threat to the establishment.
Yep, democratic socialism is ultimately a reformist position, which serves to extend the reign of capitalism by moderating it’s worse excesses. Capitalism cannot be reformed, any attempts to reform, democratize or socialize capitalism may yield short term improvements to quality of life of the working class, but if capitalism is not abolished, it will always reassert itself, and capitalism inevitably leads towards fascism. The New Deal prevented the US from sliding into fascism in the 20th century, so that’s ultimately a good thing, but it did not go far enough, and that’s why we have the resurgence of fascism in the 21st century.
This is why the Democratic Socialists of America are accepted under the banner of the Democrats, because they ultimately pose a relatively minor threat to capital owners, and they capture the energy, enthusiasm and activist efforts of left-leaning progressives, redirecting it into getting democrats elected (and thus serving the interests of the ruling class), rather than actually agitating for real, lasting societal change.
Okay, so help me to understand, I asked already and you just shared a meme, it’s kind of unfair to complain about me assuming even after I asked for clarifications :(
I literally posed my guess as a question with the idea that you could correct me if I was wrong. You are the one completely failing to communicate clearly here, even with multiple attempts from me to reconcile, and yet you’re somehow blaming me for this. Okay, whatever, thanks for wasting everyone’s time.
Sure - the right were whipped up into a nationalist fury and the left were turned into useful idiots, arguing over trivial issues while the 0.01%, who do not sit on left or right, point and laugh.
The only reasonable option is anarchy.
Like I said, I will eat downvotes but you can see evidence of this up and down this comments section.
I understand what you mean - I’m an anarchist too. Anarchism is a far-left position, though, you realize?
The democrats / mainstream liberals in western countries absolutely do often make the mistake of accepting the right wing’s framing and arguing with them on their terms, but actual leftists are the force who try to refocus that energy back onto the class struggle.
Don’t mistake democrats/liberals for actual leftists. Most of them are still very much pro-capitalism, and the democrat party itself is center right.
I do understand that anarchism is left, but it is almost far left and off-the-scale, it is outside the confides of the political spectrum almost, as it allows people immediate and direct democracy regardless of their political leaning.
However, there is such a thing as left-leaning authoritarianism. People seem to be rose-tinted is their view of the left as a free and positive ideology when it has its own trappings which are often parallel to the right. Both sides of the spectrum and notably those that claim to perpetuate it can’t be trusted imo.
Yeah, I understand what you’re saying, and you’re right that authoritarian leftists are a big threat, as we saw with the USSR and China, but I gotta say, it feels quite unhelpful to say that both sides are being played - it’s quite a defeatist position and discourages people from moving away from the right, centrism and liberalism, towards more leftist positions. Social democrats/democratic socialists are a problem too, but they have no traction, whereas the far-right has a lot of traction. We need to meet people where they are and help them reach the next step on the ladder of class consciousness. I don’t know about you, but I didn’t go from being conservative to anarchist overnight, it was a long and painful journey.
That is my issue with it though - I don’t want people to join the supposed left, they become useful idiots.
Imo, the only way out of this mess is a hard reset. End political parties, give the people direct democracy with as much immediacy as possible. Going left changes nothing, you still end up with a two-party system and a static group in charge who can’t be questioned, just one party will be left and one will be right-of-left.
In the UK we have a socialist prime minister as the face of labour and we got tightening of media and restricted internet.
This is entirely just my opinion, but the whole spectrum needs to get chucked in the bin.
Thanks for your comment, can you explain what you mean? I’m not sure that I understand.
Ah, I’m guessing you’re American, and you think that democrats are the left and republicans are the right? The democrats are actually center-right, they’re all about capitalism and protecting the interests of the ruling class.
The true left vs. right dichotomy actually IS the class war. The working class of the left is fighting against the ruling class, and the working class on the right is unfortunately blinded by propaganda and brainwashing into supporting the interests of the ruling class. As leftists, we need to help those on the right break free of their mind prisons by having conversations just like this one. Solidarity is everything.
Leftists in the United States historically haven’t been represented by mainstream politics exactly for that reason, and there has been centuries of anti-leftist propaganda in the US, that’s because leftists actually pose a threat to the establishment.
You’re giving muricans aneurysms with that sentence.
What’s next? Bernie’s center-left at best?
Yep, democratic socialism is ultimately a reformist position, which serves to extend the reign of capitalism by moderating it’s worse excesses. Capitalism cannot be reformed, any attempts to reform, democratize or socialize capitalism may yield short term improvements to quality of life of the working class, but if capitalism is not abolished, it will always reassert itself, and capitalism inevitably leads towards fascism. The New Deal prevented the US from sliding into fascism in the 20th century, so that’s ultimately a good thing, but it did not go far enough, and that’s why we have the resurgence of fascism in the 21st century.
This is why the Democratic Socialists of America are accepted under the banner of the Democrats, because they ultimately pose a relatively minor threat to capital owners, and they capture the energy, enthusiasm and activist efforts of left-leaning progressives, redirecting it into getting democrats elected (and thus serving the interests of the ruling class), rather than actually agitating for real, lasting societal change.
Yep
Nope.
You know what they say about assumptions. It’s makes and ass outta you.
Okay, so help me to understand, I asked already and you just shared a meme, it’s kind of unfair to complain about me assuming even after I asked for clarifications :(
Once you assumed something about me I no longer am paying any attention because you already have a preconceived notion about what I think and feel.
I literally posed my guess as a question with the idea that you could correct me if I was wrong. You are the one completely failing to communicate clearly here, even with multiple attempts from me to reconcile, and yet you’re somehow blaming me for this. Okay, whatever, thanks for wasting everyone’s time.
Sure - the right were whipped up into a nationalist fury and the left were turned into useful idiots, arguing over trivial issues while the 0.01%, who do not sit on left or right, point and laugh. The only reasonable option is anarchy.
Like I said, I will eat downvotes but you can see evidence of this up and down this comments section.
I understand what you mean - I’m an anarchist too. Anarchism is a far-left position, though, you realize?
The democrats / mainstream liberals in western countries absolutely do often make the mistake of accepting the right wing’s framing and arguing with them on their terms, but actual leftists are the force who try to refocus that energy back onto the class struggle.
Don’t mistake democrats/liberals for actual leftists. Most of them are still very much pro-capitalism, and the democrat party itself is center right.
I do understand that anarchism is left, but it is almost far left and off-the-scale, it is outside the confides of the political spectrum almost, as it allows people immediate and direct democracy regardless of their political leaning.
However, there is such a thing as left-leaning authoritarianism. People seem to be rose-tinted is their view of the left as a free and positive ideology when it has its own trappings which are often parallel to the right. Both sides of the spectrum and notably those that claim to perpetuate it can’t be trusted imo.
Yeah, I understand what you’re saying, and you’re right that authoritarian leftists are a big threat, as we saw with the USSR and China, but I gotta say, it feels quite unhelpful to say that both sides are being played - it’s quite a defeatist position and discourages people from moving away from the right, centrism and liberalism, towards more leftist positions. Social democrats/democratic socialists are a problem too, but they have no traction, whereas the far-right has a lot of traction. We need to meet people where they are and help them reach the next step on the ladder of class consciousness. I don’t know about you, but I didn’t go from being conservative to anarchist overnight, it was a long and painful journey.
That is my issue with it though - I don’t want people to join the supposed left, they become useful idiots. Imo, the only way out of this mess is a hard reset. End political parties, give the people direct democracy with as much immediacy as possible. Going left changes nothing, you still end up with a two-party system and a static group in charge who can’t be questioned, just one party will be left and one will be right-of-left. In the UK we have a socialist prime minister as the face of labour and we got tightening of media and restricted internet. This is entirely just my opinion, but the whole spectrum needs to get chucked in the bin.