The funniest thing is that the superhero they have a problem with is Superman.
If it were Batman, that would be different. Batman isn’t a pure-hearted hero, he’s a more complex character. If it had been someone in the X-Men, or pretty much any Avenger other than Captain America, there would be room for a discussion.
But, Superman is such a good, kind-hearted hero that it’s basically impossible to be a good person and be anti-Superman.
Superman is such a good, kind-hearted hero
Oh yeah, no flaws, no notes
The guy on the fence
has a little kryptonite on his backis a nazi so he deserves it
Absolutely.
I know people can call superman boring, but to me what makes him even more amazing is that he has enough power to basically dominate everyone… But he doesn’t, he always chooses to do the right thing and tries to give people a second chance.
It’s part of the reason Zach Schneider’s Superman sucked balls, because they tried to make him some dark edge lord that literally kills in the first fucking movie.
Supes is the last hero that remains as some sort of beacon of hope and fairness, which naturally goes against the fascist mindset.
A red hatter cannot comprehend having power and not using it to subjugate or enforce your will. It simply does not compute in their lead infested brains.
The biggest super hero fan I know said that he doesn’t like Superman. Confused by this I asked him why, and he had a pretty good point.
His reason was that, Superman generally isn’t physically challenged. In most cases the only issue he faces is trying to figure out what is going on. After that, Superman wins every time. The only exception is with kryptonite. His literal only weakness.
So all plot lines boil down to a mystery, followed by some flashy scenes of Superman going Superman stuff, the end; with the only real exception being “bad guys have kryptonite”. It’s boring.
And you know what? He makes a good point.
None of this goes against anything you say, it’s just one person’s opinion (not even mine). The only reason I’m posting this is to say, it’s possible to dislike Superman content, but that doesn’t and shouldn’t imply someone is anti-Superman.
Food for thought.
It’s probably the main reason that there are games about pretty much every superhero going, but Superman always gets skipped. Superman 64 is the classic example, due to how dire it was. There’s been a few attempts since then, but nothing popular and the last was about 20 years ago.
The only real threat to Superman is to attack the things he cares about.
I kind of like the subversion of Superman type characters, like Dr Manhattan (what if Superman was indifferent?) or Homelander (what if Superman was a cunt?)
I forget the title but there was a Superman game on original Xbox that gave Metropolis a health bar, Not Superman.
Beating up bad guys, stopping disasters and completing missions helped the city survive. Getting hit meant a few seconds where you were inactive and the city might take more damage.
It was a pretty inspired idea honestly. I don’t think the game was excellent but good design choice.
Death of Superman, Reign of Supermen, Superman Allstar. There are many film/scenarios, where superman has to fight someone actually stronger than he is. Even in Justice League Dark Apokolips, he is captured first, and then injected with Kryptonite.
Your friend needs to watch/read more DC content.
Some more examples with spoilers below.
Tap for spoiler
He even got mind controlled by Poison Ivy once. Hell, in the new game, Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League, he is mind controlled by Brainiac, and Wonder Woman having Kryptonite didn’t protect her from Superman.
Superman has also done questionable things, even without being mind controlled, like in Batman The Dark Knight Returns Part 2, it is implied that he ripped out one arm of Oliver Queen, aka, Green Arrow, who was also member of Justice League, because the government of USA wanted to stop vigilantes. Then he also almost killed Batman, after being almost killed by Batman.
Even in-universe they call him boy scout lol
Im so glad Im not American. It must be fucking exhausting keeping this dumb as fuck culture war going.
Conservative culture creates whiney little bitch-made motherfuckers that have no meaning in their lives beyond clinging to imaginary grievances. The state of the world would be marginally better if we all learned to stop giving them attention.
its the billionaires(class war) + a little troll farm is keeping us distracted from the class war. with the help right wing talking heads and fox.
For fucks sake, mate. How can you be so right, and so fucking blind at the same time???
I saw no lies in their comment?
Feels like they’re arguing with themselves and begging for attention most of the time. It wouldn’t be a problem if corpo bitches didn’t listen to them.
If only they were arguing with themselves. The problem is everyone else who picks a side, and then jumps in arse first with a lot of opinions and very little information that isnt just headlines and buzzwords. People are so fucking angry all the time. And they blame the “other side” for it, not once considering that for every right wing grifter, theres a left wing grifter turning the screw just as hard in order to get likes, shares and subscribes.
Only the time of the online influencer became a thing, we were all fucked. Covid just accelerated to ludicrous speed, and now dark helmet is up all our asses.
Real talk: Hollywood didn’t go “woke” you just grew up to be a piece of shit.
No, but, see, superman wasn’t enough of an edgy anti-hero in this one so now I’m sad.
Have you seen The Boys? There’s an actual fan club of Homelander. The series creators are trying to cut it down because it’s the exact opposite of the message they try to bring. Vilans are people’s new heroes now. Like Trump and Musk for example.
The Boys is great because it explores how horrific a world like that would be, and how close that world is to ours.
Thankfully I’ve not seen people fawning over Home Lander. I see people say they exist, but I do wonder if that’s drive-by people mistaking fandom of the show for fandom of Homelander.
The guy is a forever child whose insecurity makes him a monster. You’re shown how all his “romantic” relationships are about him being mothered. He literally keeps breast milk in his fridge. He’s an infant given god like powers. There is nothing inspirational about him.
He’s a great villain though.
I love his character, the actor really does a great job. But he’s super evil. He’s a great representation to the real world, as many people think there’s no collateral damage too great to justify reaching their goal. Dehumanizing others, committing war crimes, hunger for power, forcing their beliefs onto others. I despise people like that.
But there are people who think otherwise: See this
Same with so the storm trooper Star Wars stuff that seemed to start around the first time Trump ran.
At the same time, I like that the antagonists of the boys are people with nuance.
The best shows and stories are ones where both sides believe they are doing what is best for everyone, but disagree on what’s best for everyone… Like Thanos. His idea was good in concept, his execution? Not great.
People are stupid
Fascists aren’t people in most of the ways that matter.
They do have viable organs tho, if we wanted to address the shortage in an easy and ethical way.
By dehumanizing them you’re no different. Treat your enemies with respect, they are human too, just dumb pieces of shit. Don’t lower yourself to their level. Be better than them.
Keep pleading for their respect when they have a gun to the back of your head. I’m sure that will work.
no different
Addressed elsewhere downthread.
treat your enemies with respect
And if they dont want to be people in any of the ways that matter to me, calling them people eould be profoundly disrespectful. They aren’t me abd dont have my values and treating them like they are/do would be disrespectful.
human
Nobodys arguing that. I just don’t see why it gets brought up. Plenty of people arent human-dogs cats elephants octopi corvids cetaceans. If they’re not lesser for not being human, i dont see why it’s something i should be eating myself out about.
dumb pieces of shit
There’s actually more to it than that. Plenty if dumb pieces of shit aren’t fascists. In some older forms, that imo inevitably went extinct because of the nature of what it is, they didnt even need to be stupid.
don’t lower yourself. Be better
Thanks, got it handled. Take your own advice and don’t be super reactionary and tribalistic while reducing everything to shallow aesthetics. Try rigorous examination if the things you believe and elaboration, rather than reflexive gut reaction, or you really are not so different from them.
If i am able to switch one word in a 3 sentence comment in order make it exactly sound like what a Fascist would say, it is probably not a very anti fascist thing. Dehumanizing the outgroup is very fascist.
Everything accusation is a confession. Why would this one be any different?
If you have meaningful criteria for what personhood is and why it matters-criteria constructed with intellectual honestly to have some actual utility and not just a desire to avoid awkward questions-it’s very likely a fascist does not meet them.
Is chat gpt a person? Why or why not? If yes, what’s the earliest model that counted, why did previous models not?
Odds are most of your answers for not are either silly ‘its not even made of meat’ and kind of offensive (you only think i have value because im meaty and delicious? Wtf? Is steak a person? Tofu?) or apply at least somewhat to fascists, or at least to every fascist’s aspiration.
Is chatgpt a person? Maybe, if you find the right definition. Is chatgpt a human? No.
Is a Fascist a person? Maybe not if you find the right definition. Is a Fascist a human? For sure.
I have no problems fighting fascists, if needed with strong violence. The moment we throw then into a camp for extermination is the point i am going to fight the new fascists.
You can sate your sadism on fantasy, no need to become the monster yourself.
the right definition
Cool, which one(s) do you use? You’re avoiding the question. Which is silly. The point was to highlight the space. Why does this make you so uncomfortable?
person? Skipping that. Human? Of course!
Cool so say hi to henrietta for me. I don’t see why thats a philosophically important thing; being a particular species of ape. Privileging it when there are obviously other intelligent species in the world, other people, seems incredibly bigoted and shitty.
that would make me a fascist!
Industrialized violence is not what makes a fascist a fascist. It is a philosophy. A very stupid one, but a philosophy. Plenty of people before and after gabriel d’anunzio have done plenty of horrible things without being fascists. Fascism is not a synonym for ‘thing i don’t like’, for fuck’s sake. And that sentence is one I’ve heard a fascist say, but apparently you need fucking reminding.
save the nazis!
So i am actually down to have this discussion, albeit from pretty close to team ‘and their families: if it’s old enough to talk it’s old enough to hang’ but you’re avoiding potentially uncomfortable questions because they make you uncomfortable, and i would ask more intellectual honesty from you than you’re willing to give yourself. Which seems rude, so lets not.
It is ok, you win the contest. If you win back your country have fun doing alle the horrible shit to “things” that are not quite human. You have no problem with industrialized violence because thats what america is.
homelander was based on trump, and they were obviously parodying Conservatives in the show.
The comics are from long before Trump. (2006-2012) Homelander is just what happens when you give a flawed person Superman powers. That’s the whole premise of the Boys. “What-if superhumans were real people with real flaws?”.
He’s the manifestation of “absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
Its the same way all of silicon valley read ‘snow crash’ and was like ‘yeah! Metaverse! Apartheid south african enclaves in los angeles! Mind vontrol virus! Christofascism!’
They can’t, like, read for the editorial content of what the author’s saying. It starts and ends with imagining literal facts.
I blame the total lack of humanuties education.
Fellas, is it gay to value your loved ones and oppose violence?
Hella gay. Let’s go do crimes about it.
Waaaaah! Suoerman isn’t enough if an edgy antihero for me!
While I prefer to not get my political messaging from media productions, I’ll take what I can get. When was expressing good moral values determined to be a bad thing again? I forget.
When basic politeness started getting folks called out as “soy boys”.
As far as media productions go, Clark’s been consistently on the correct side of the social spectrum. Except for a few years during WW2.
Explain how punching Nazis while being a character specifically designed to steal “Superman” rhetoric from them is being on the wrong side.
In the early years of the war dude has an issue where he drags Hitler and Stalin before the League of Nations to stand trial from invading Poland.
The only thing I can think of was all the racism against the Japanese… Okay yeah that was bad but it was also segregation era America so that was the style at the time, you take what you can get.
Yeah, I should have specified I was referring to his “Slap A Jap” phase
About 2015?
May 2015, it was in May 2015.
The only problem I have with this is that it’s fiction.
If even Superman is being targeted, I don’t even want to know what Captain America is up to these days. Is he already the poster boy for ICE?
I’m asking because this isn’t fiction.
what Captain America is up to these days. Is he already the poster boy for ICE?
Well, yeah, he basically was, for a while.
(These fascist types tend to identify more with the Punisher, though, despite the fact that he’d be the first to shoot them full of bullets.)
I’m kinda in the same boat. I don’t give a fuck about Superman or Bond or any other lone hero fighting against imaginary villains when real villains are running amok.
Even James Gunn seems to be aware of this FWIW
I take it you never saw CA: The Winter Soldier. There’s this whole bit about Steve and Nat getting hunted because they didn’t bow to the fascists.
I think it’s very interesting that CA: Winter Soldier was about the secret Nazis that have taken over the military and plan to kill everyone with their drones and facial recognition while CA: Brave New World (Order) is about how slavery is okay when the President General does it and loves his daughter or something
CA: Brave New World (Order) is about how slavery is okay when the President General does it and loves his daughter or something
What? Ross ended up in jail, and was never portrayed as the good guy…
It would be pretty ironic if it was considering he socked Hitler in the jaw all those times
I mean, dirty cops love the Punisher, even though he’s canonically killed quite a few of them.
Hes canonically also said he hates cops that worship him because they are supposed to be the vanguard of law and order, not murderers. I think he then went on to kill those cops, to really just nail the whole point home.
Surprise surprise, it didn’t take.
conservatives like the co-opt one part of something they like discard another, much like with WOKE, punisher, and even christian-themed shows like supernatural.
and they dont realized boyz IS ALSO MAKING fun of them and trump at the same time, they like the authotarian nature of shows and media, plus straight white male, but dont realize its conservatives that these shows are parodying.
And iirc hates it when cops use his image, as he only need to exist because cops are not upholding justice.
He has outlined this explicitly multiple times in every appearance he’s ever made in anything. It takes a dangerously fucking stupid individual to use him as a symbol for police or justice. The creator of The Punisher has even outlined this in real life too many times to mention.
You check the new Daredevil. There’s whole storyline about NYC cop who are way too into the Punisher.
Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, because the MAGA cultists somehow still see themselves as patriots.
Irony just doesn’t seem to be their thing, otherwise they probably wouldn’t have voted for the same rapist twice.
Same folks who couldn’t handle a Bishop preaching mercy, either.
Didn’t the same movie have Hawkgirl pulling a Pinochet on the bad guy though? Weren’t they happy enough with that?
No you see because that guy was going to commit a genocide and these people like genocide
Sad but not unexpected.
Love the post but am I missing some English education? Whinge? Lol
UK slang that roughly means whining or complaining.
Merriam-Webster defines it as “to complain fretfully.”
I see
I think it’s like whine but you’re making fun of the whining person more
Idk I’m not Bri’ish either
I liked the movie, but could have done without the messaging. I dislike political messaging in media even when I agree with the message, because I’m going to said media to escape reality. I don’t need a reminder about it, and I particularly don’t need some allegorical moral instruction, like I’m some sort of child.
I think there’s a place for political messaging in film—like when it’s the explicit purpose of said film—but I don’t like it being wedged in just anywhere.
So, a character who is meant to embody protecting peace, justice, and freedom for all for as long as he has existed is now too political for advocating peace, justice, and freedom for all?
How dare they impose their politics on such a blank and centrist slate.
No, I just don’t like political messaging in my superhero flicks. You’re misunderstanding my point (possibly intentionally, idk, it’s really not that complicated).
I understand your point, you just don’t understand how character writing works. Removing the politics of a character is bad writing that panders to bad taste.
No, you don’t understand my point, because you think I’m talking about Superman’s “politics.” I’m talking about James Gunn’s politics and him using Superman as a mouthpiece for them. Superman doesn’t have politics in the sense I’m talking about. He’s just on the side of freedom, peace, and good. Classic moral tropes that virtually everyone supports, because without context, they’re just ideals. When you contextualize them with modern, real-world events though, they become political messaging, and that’s what I don’t like in a superhero movie.
> Superman doesn’t have politics in the sense I’m talking about.
> He’s just on the side of freedom, peace, and good.
Damn, you a dense one huh
No, actually, I think you just proved you’re the dense one.
“No, you are!” - You, that’s what you sound like.
The fuck do you think Superman is doing in the comics?
I can see you’re running out of juice, so I won’t press you further. Have a good night.
Answer the fucking question.
That was the explicit messaging of the movie. The scene with Superman not understanding why some people might have an issue with him saving lives, to him convincing the other Heroes to throw realpolitik to the side to do the same, to Lex completely not understanding altruism. It wasn’t just wedged in. It’s was the whole point of the movie.
No, it wasn’t the whole point of the movie, it was a thinly veneered plot that mimicked and commented upon real-world events. The central themes of the film were about identity being defined by one’s choices and actions, rather than one’s genetics or parents’ wishes. Films that explicitly critique society are films like Brazil or The Manchurian Candidate, and I have no problem with them because they’re explicit in their purpose at being political commentary. Making a superhero movie that’s purpose is rebooting the DCEU and inserting a political message into it is not explicit at all.
God forbid Superman ever get involved in politics, like Smashing the KKK or warning kids about landmines.
And you can have more then one plot device in a movie. I’m actually tankful that the whole “defined by choices, not by birth” wasn’t the only plot line because I’ve seen that one countless times by now. “Kindness is punk” is a counter cultural idea by now and was refreshing to see.
I thought the movie was awful, but the message was good. The plot was just bad. The characters were so unrealistic that it was distracting. Like, the people Luthor had in his command centre. These ordinary people were eager to kill, or at least badly injure Superman? That detail needed an explanation. It wouldn’t have needed one if they hadn’t focused so much on those characters, but for some reason they were made an important part of the story.
The only really great scene in the movie was when Lois Lane grilled Superman on his intervention in the war. It was good to see a good-hearted man who was confident he had done the right thing stumble when asked hard questions.
conservatives like you are, what they are making fun of, because of ridiculous they take things.
I’m a liberal and a progressive, so that shows how poor a room-read you have. Come back when you have better grasp of things.
Gouge out your eyes then
Delete your comment before the mods do.
1: They can come and take it 2: Lol
