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Screenshot of a Tumblr post by nongunktional:
when i first heard about the male loneliness epidemic i was like oh yeah close camaraderie and bonding between men is often discouraged in favor of competition or, if not discouraged, at least filtered through a lens of individualism that precludes deep connections. and then i learned what people meant by it (men arent getting laid) to which i say skill issue
to all the men out there not getting laid: try less hard to get laid and try more hard to be an enjoyable and relaxing presence
Is the male loneliness epidemic not generally understood to be the first thing? Also platonic female friends are actually the best, it’s crazy how willing women are compared to dudes to hype you up and support you when your primary motivation for the friendship isn’t sex.
It is. This is just casual misandry.
Their “advice” that they gave out is “be enjoyable” … some real big brain stuff
It’s the “works on my machine” of social interaction. I have never received a less useful piece of information.
Have you tried taking a shower? /s
Male loneliness is about camaraderie. If it was about getting laid, then prostitution would solve it. Busting a nut isn’t gonna fix a psychological problem facing the adult male population in modern western society and this shitty tumblr post isn’t gonna either. Its down right perpetuating it. Now, some truth is there; COMPANIONSHIP (not not getting laid) is a wonderful thing and does help, but the root of the problem is societal.
Well this is just… Wrong. The “loneliness epidemic” doesn’t just have to do with getting laid. What an absurd take.
Having sex is just a part of it, because lo and behold sex is a healthy and normal part of the human biological process.
However, ask a man what it’s like trying to make friends. Or if they made any new friends as of late… Or in the past 5 years. Yes, just friends, not sexual partners.
You’ll find a lot of guys past the school phase and into the work/career phase haven’t made any new friends. If you’re a man with a career then congrats! You probably have money. But no real time to make new friends, get back in touch with old friends, or find someone to date. If you’re a man with work, but not a career, you’re probably broke most of the time. Too broke to go or do anything.
Even men in relationships, having families, can suffer from loneliness. Yeah, you got a wife, abd maybe a kid… but you still need friends!
An issue with this loneliness problem is that it’s not taken seriously, and dismissing it as “Oh it’s just a sex thing. Git gud.” is exactly that. Not difficult to see how something like the so-called “manosphere” can swoop in; religions, cults, and similar find the lost, stuck, and disenfranchised easy prey.
I don’t understand the not making friends thing. I’ve made a string of friends in the last five years, and continue to do so. And I am a socially awkward, ADHD, anxiety raddled, sometimes annoying as fuck, mess. Maybe it’s because I own it and just stopped caring what people think of me and they can fuck off if they don’t like me being my genuine self? I dunno, all I know is that I do my best to approach people openly, kindly, and treat them like I’d like to be treated back and it largely works for me.
Maybe that has something to do with it for some people, but generally no.
Most guys can’t afford to go places. Or they work so much just to get by that when they’re finally done at the end of the day there’s just no energy left.
It’s a society issue, not a personal issue.
Tjose are all guy problems that only guys have that are worse and have fewer solutions for guys, absolutely.
Ok let’s not pretend that the specific term “male lonliness epidemic” doesn’t specifically mean that low-effort men are pissed that women have standards now and are finally able to follow-through by way of having enough money to stay single. If people are using that term it refers to thay situation and you can’t spin your way out of it.
What you said is generally correct but it’s still their fault. I’m a man who, while unemployed at the moment, has consistently been able to make new friends and have new experiences while having a career. Men are stopping themselves from having new experiences that would lead to making new friends. Worse still, many of the people in North America who are experiencing these issues and crying about it are the same ones who blindly follow the white picket fence path and are confused at why their overly expensive, isolated suburban home makes them broke and leaves them isolated from social activities. I know a lot of men here in the city who are having a fine time because they’re actually interesting people who do stuff, and who put themselves in situations where stuff happens.
Our cities are built like shit and the men don’t fucking try. Then they bitch and moan that people don’t just drop out of the sky because their whole life they’ve been brought up on some complete nonsense and can’t reconcile the fact that they were lied to.
low-effort men
What a disgusting person you are.
Why? Because there are a bunch of people who do the bare fucking minimum and expect women and friends to fall out of the sky? I was going to say “low-quality” but decided that I didn’t like the connotation of that. “Low-effort” instead gives people a chance to put some effort in themselves.
Cry about it, I guess.
The problem is we live in a society pause for laugh track
Where men are told they have to get laid or their personhood is questionable and women are told they must never get laid or their personhood is questionable.
The result is that heterosexual men are frustrated, cisgender women everywhere are afraid of anything with a penis, and dating men as a transwomen is pretty fucking easy because men are tired and desperate.
Source: Am Transwoman
Trans people always have the greatest insight into these issues. Thank you!
I guess it comes from being between the typical roles.
The same predjudice also appears to apply to gay people.
Yeah, the OP can suck eggs on this one.
It has nothing to do with getting laid.
Came here to say this.
I’m 42, happily married, and can’t find/keep/make a friend to save my life. My wife is very anti-social/introverted and has a good number of friends.
I cycle between thinking my interests suck, or I must just be un-fucking-bareable to be around and completely oblivious.
Maybe both… Probably both.
Man, I feel you. I am genuinely jealous of people who can walk in a room and be friends with everyone in a few minutes.
I mean it also does mean the first thing tho no?
depends on your circles. in feminist and leftist circles, it usually means the first
but most men outside of those circles use it just to mean “im not getting the dates i am ENTITLED to 😡”
You got that backwards. Feminist and lefty leaning circles routinely dismiss the first as the second which is partly responsible for pushing young men further right.
I don’t know who gave you that idea, but it’s incorrect
That would be my husband’s friend from college who despite getting lots of interest on dating apps; wants nothing to do with any of the women interested in him.
And I quote:
Too fat
Too old
Too skinny
Too young
Butter face
She has a PHD
She has kids
Etc etc
Honestly, though, that sounds like an avoidant attachment style. He desperately wants intimacy, but it scares the bejeezus out of him, so he unconsciously finds a way to sandbag every potential connection.
Andrew Tate and Ben Shapiro say it’s spot on.
And you listen to them to figure out what’s correct and what isn’t?
Ahh yes, the absolute fucking idiots that are proud they don’t know how to cook or do laundry… Yep, they’re paragons of understanding things!
Oh, so it’s just the deliberate misunderstanding of a nuanced term, like what they did with toxic masculinity.
I’ve only rarely heard it used as a shorthand for “I/we/you can’t get laid”. I’ve always interpreted it to mean the first thing. OP isn’t wrong about the second though, honestly. It is a skill issue.
Only if youre ableist.
Sure, there are a minority of people who have legitimate physical disabilities that make it difficult for them to get laid, or impossible to have sex at all. I was under the impression that we were discussing the general case, though. I’m not going to prefix every comment I make with a statement about the exceptions when I’m speaking casually.
It makes conversation awkward and difficult to follow, because you have to dig through the throat-clearing and ass-covering to figure out what the person is trying to say. If you want to discuss those exceptions, feel free to bring them up, but if you feel that I’m ableist for refusing to pad out all my comments with performative acknowledgements to satisfy your asinine sense of morality, then I don’t know what to tell you. Well, actually, I guess I do: “No”.
Right, it’s very early and I rarely (if ever) have a sexual appetite, so Imma need clarification: how is getting laid not a skill issue? It is my understanding that if people want it enough, they find ways to change themselves or their circumstances to make it happen.
Just like how if people want to be billionaires enough, they find ways to change themselves or their circumstances to make it happen. People only have partial control over who they are and the circumstances they’re in, and the changes they’re able to make don’t always make a difference here.
person who wrote this sounds like an insensitive asshole.
That’s the joke (I’m hoping). The dude starts off as if he’s sympathetic and caring, and then the moment he finds the opening (the emotional vulnerability of another is exposed) he rams home the blade in his friend’s/fellow-man’s back.
Yeah, the way it finishes, it really doesn’t sound like a joke. If it is a joke, its a pretty bad one.
I don’t think it was meant as a joke.
That isn’t what people mean by it. Loneliness means loneliness.
Imagine what would happen if somebody said this about women. Are you lonely, ladies? Have you tried being enjoyable and relaxing? And you should smile more!
I can’t possibly be doing the jerkoff gesture any harder than I’m doing it right now. Oh, the poor lonely men…
You are giving the incels exactly what they want. You are letting them hijack the fact that people are lonely into another reason why they are “victims” of society. You are dismissing every good person that feels like shit because you can’t stop thinking about bad people. You are the problem.
Incels don’t matter.
And no decent men are concerned about a male “loneliness epidemic.”
Oh, dear- I’m part of the problem.
Incels don’t matter. - You are right, now, how about you stop letting their shit arguments cloud your better judgement.
I also don’t like the epidemic being labeled as being “male only”, it is far more universal to only affect men. This is apparent by looking at any recent study of loneliness in society. Everybody has become more lonely.
How can you seriously dismiss every lonely man (or anybody else lonely for that matter) as some fucking incel because some shitheads online whine about the same shit they have been whining for about for last decade? Do you seriously not see what you are doing?
it is far more universal to only affect men. This is apparent by looking at any recent study of loneliness in society. Everybody has become more lonely.
Cool. So you agree that there is no “male loneliness epidemic,” but rather just a regular human issue that aspiring rapists have decided to co-opt in order to sound sympathetic.
Yes. The same issue that then you seem to try to diminish by equating those men who experience it to incels, under the guise that decent men are not lonely. Do you think people who are lonely are not decent? Do you think they deserve it? Fuck. That. Shit.
Neither of us are on the side of the incels, fuck those bastards. But your hateboner for incels is so large that you shit on lonely men as a group, instead of critizing the fucking misogynist creep rat bastard subset that are the problem. Not “Cool”.
Decent men who are lonely talk about it like human beings. They don’t need to hide behind a bullshit “male loneliness epidemic.”
go back to reddit
edit: every single fucking time I open the user profile for somebody who posted some low-effort spew like this ITT, they’re all up in whitepeopletwitter. curious… 🤔
Yes but there’s an existing stereotype of men who want nothing but to get laid, that’s why it’s relevant in this case. Context matters
Edit: THEY EXIST. Doesn’t mean all men are like that. You guys are too sensitive lol. I’m thinking pickup artists and other guys who completely objectify women.
Oh shit there’s a stereotype so let’s apply it to everyone suffering this.
Yeah, that’s definitely what I meant. Great job 👍🏼
It’s a dumbass stereotype misandrists use to demonise men.
There something quite ableist about all of this.
As if everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps without the support of a community around them.
I mean, the answer is that it is both. Like, not having close friends sucks. And not getting laid sucks. And both are valid and legitimate things to complain about.
Like, honestly, the “skill issue” take is super toxic. It’s basically the same as telling a poor person that not being rich is a skill issue. The lack of understanding and compassion for peoples’ legitimate problems will only radicalize them further.
the men who won’t man up need to be told to man up, especially if they tried to man up by imitating a child predator fascist.
And by dismissing their very real issues as a trivial matter not worthy of even discussing, you’ve now pushed them into the arms of people who make false promises and exploit them.
Congrats, you shot yourself in the foot.
I’m not saying that punishing politically toxic men is trivial, I’m saying it’s worth doing. You can’t make a man change by pandering to him, you have to actually communicate with them directly, or they’ll tune you out.
What you’re doing is not communicating with them. You’re preemptively dismissing them as your enemy and then acting surprised when they walk towards those who are acting welcoming.
“Not immediately insulting them over their voiced concerns” isn’t pandering…
That language will get you nowhere fast. Given that this post is meant to highlight toxic masculinity and its negative repercussions, “manning up” is the furthest thing from what they should do. Redefining what it means to be strong is closer
“redefining what it means to be strong” is stupid
maybe reconnecting with strength and disparaging weak conceptions of strength
I cannot fucking wait for the day Lemmy ships the “blocking an instance removes its users from comment threads” feature.
There are plenty of good people on .world. Being tribalist over a few ignorant takes is absolutely assinine and is the exact kind of thought process they are using against lonely men. Do better if you’re so wise as to understand the loneliness epidemic.
the problem isn’t the good people on .world.
the problem is the endless horde of dipshits on .world who need to do a lot more detox from shithole social media like reddit, and stop spewing their ignorance into every comment section they infest in the meantime.
since they won’t stop doing that shit at anywhere near the rate necessary for me to enjoy & derive value from this place, I will be removing them from my default experience the instant that option becomes available to me.
it’s on the good people of .world to either help their compatriots self-improve, or find a less shitty instance. because when it comes right down to it, there are a hell of a lot of good people not on .world for me to talk to, and that’s plenty. the ones who stay indefinitely on a shitty instance are not irreplaceable. not by a long shot.
I think you’re funny, spewing your impotent frustration. At least I actually want men to man up.
What is this place anyhow? I get pushback on .world for telling feminists that men’s problems won’t be fixed if they understand the patriarchy harder, and here people are defensive of the notion that politics made some men really shitty.
Did a bunch of lonely men end up here instead of lemmy world?
You are making the mistake of anthropomorphising communities. There are no singular trains of thought here. There are just people of many sorts posting messages for others to read. Full stop.
The only instances that might warrant some anthropomorphizing are those with stated goals and admin approved joining. That is the only condition a singular identity of some sort should be expected to arise.
The only sort of unifying factor for lemmy is “not reddit”, which includes nerds of many sorts, leftists of ALL sorts (which is its own entire topic of how freaking diverse that is), and the few who simply want to try a different media that’s like reddit.
You seem to be using politics as a cudgel against men instead of attempting to understand the social forces that are creating this problem in the first place. There are forces that push ignorant men to those politics you’re so fond of making fun of. Forces that come before the politics.
You can pretend to not understand all you want, but your ignorance won’t be tolerated for long here.
You are making the mistake of anthropomorphising communities. There are no singular trains of thought here. There are just people of many sorts posting messages for others to read. Full stop.
Yeah ok but you are not immune from having a local culture sorry
leftists of ALL sorts (which is its own entire topic of how freaking diverse that is),
so is it like the subset of leftists that isn’t outright commie?
You seem to be using politics as a cudgel against men instead of attempting to understand the social forces that are creating this problem in the first place.
yes, because using the cudgel is preferable to endlessly theorizing
You can pretend to not understand all you want, but your ignorance won’t be tolerated for long here.
🫡
I get you. Some of these boys need to be told to get out there and get scared. Everyone wants to huddle in their comfort zone, and to hell with anything or anyone that drags them out. That’s a toxic black hole. If you’re not experiencing some discomfort and fear, you’re not living life.
Had to break myself away from that black hole today. Went out to my camp. Ah fuck me it sucks out there in the summer. You gotta bathe in bug spray, and reapply constantly. Thought I would stroke out several times. Got some walking and shooting in, got some work done, came home and showered, feel great. Imagine if I had sat at this keyboard all day talking to you fuckers. Downward spiral.
Bravery is being scared and doing it anyway. Be brave.
The problem is that attitude of yours fixes nothing. Blaming the individual when there ARE many more societal contributing factors is ignorant at best and hateful at worst.
You may as well blame every poor person individually for being poor instead of things like minimum wage having not changed significantly in 30 years.
You may as well be one of those idiots telling people to recycle more plastic to fix global warming instead of blaming the massive industries that pollute millions of times more than any individual ever could and spend their billions bribing politicians to keep the gravy train going.
Most people do not have a “camp” to go out to. Your privilege is clearly making you fucking ignorant on this topic, and you need to shut up and listen to everyone else on this one.
Good lord are you worked up with assumptions! I say again, young men need to get off the coach and get out their comfort zones. This is a thing anyone can do. You don’t need 2 acres of swamp, you can go walk till you drop, talk to a girl, go somewhere you’re leery of, anything that scares you will do. We can’t experience bravery without fear, and we can’t live a full life without bravery. Anything less is merely waiting to die, and no one deserves that.
I’m not blaming these men, and if we’re making assumptions, that smells like victim mentality. Fuck all that. As I said:
these boys need to be told
How to encourage them to get out and purposefully be uncomfortable? I have no ideas. But it has to happen or we lose a generation to ennui, depression and reclusive dweebs. Again, downward spiral. That’s a hella gravity well to escape.
As active as I am, been fighting it for a year since I lost my job. Young guy across the street and I were tight a couple of years back. Now he sits and plays video games all day, growing fatter every time I see him, zero social life. What am I doing? Chatting with you people. I’m certainly not helping him. Best get off my ass and eat my own dog food. Charity starts at home they say! :)
And don’t for one fucking second lecture me on privilege. I understood and internalized the fact of my luck and status since the 90s, since long before society at large started talking about the concept. You been alive that long? How many stories you want where I felt my privileges in my very guts? I am well fucking aware, thank you for your concern.
You are way out of line and owe me an apology. That’s not a thing I say online, but you have wronged me, put me in boxes I don’t fit in or deserve.
You are using one person to judge every single lonely male. Congratulations on further proving your utter inability to think beyond steroetypes. Your mind is truly a vapid space of generalities and presumptions. Just stop commenting on this topic for your own good because you are just constantly proving the sheer depths of your ignorant judgement.
(Can’t edit my own posts)
Just texted the guy. Nah. He just jumped in a game with some people. See what I mean?! He’s getting fatter and more antisocial by day by day. He’s in his comfort zone, totally unbothered. I’m not baggin’ on gaming, but outside a part-time jobs, that’s all he does!
It’s not both because “not getting laid” has nothing to do with the male loneliness epidemic and is not what people mean when they talk about it
It’s clearly both. Men who are lonely tend to not get laid, either.
Getting laid is an activity that does involve other humans, so it certainly is a method of combatting loneliness. But if it’s not as part of a partnership, it hardly does anything for some of the deeper cutting problems that are described as the “male loneliness epidemic”, particularly not having anyone to share your struggles with…
For me, while getting laid regularly doesn’'t actually solve any of the other problems in my life, it is like an “easy button” for being happy. Things have to be pretty bad for me to get upset when I’ve had sex in the last few days or expecting it soon. Unfortunately I’ve never been able to maintain a relationship where that is the case so it ends up having the opposite effect until I eventually end things and go back to being just mid all the time.
The issue is that for a lot of lonely men (probably most), the issue is social ineptitude, hangups and all the issues in modern life that make forming connections hard. That impacts their ability to form friendships, find romantic partners and to get casual sex.
Some men might be able to get casual sex but not friendships, but I doubt that’s true for most.
So it’s misnamed?
What do we call the epidemic where males are lonely in general? We … are discussing that very real problem affecting the minority sex, right?
Right?
What do we call the epidemic where males are lonely in general?
The male loneliness epidemic
Dumbass take.
A “skill issue” take, is just a republican “personal responsibility” take.
It’s dumb as fuck. How about you examine the systems that produce outcomes? Have you learned literally nothing from the last 50 years of the social justice movement?
Don’t deprive the weak men of their agency. So many Trump toxicity ‘outcomes’ chose this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback
The notion of cause-and-effect has to be handled carefully when applied to feedback systems:
Simple causal reasoning about a feedback system is difficult because the first system influences the second and second system influences the first, leading to a circular argument. This makes reasoning based upon cause and effect tricky, and it is necessary to analyze the system as a whole.
The solution to a complex system isn’t to fret about how complex it is, it’s to cut the feedback loop.
Weak men who developed toxic politics are caught in a feedback loop. Cut them out of it. Not complicated, just abrasive.
But you can continue constructing your nuanced and sympathetic understanding. These men just need to be understood, that will help them.
You’re advocating genocide, or at least, one step away from it, and you don’t even seem to realize it.
You also seem to have no grasp of how complex systems or feedback work, given that feedback is a necessary and inherent part of many systems and cannot just be ‘cut out’.
Quite frankly, you’re more toxic then most of the men you seem to despise.
it does not follow from the marginalization of the other that every time you experience the marginalization of the other, it is directly connected to genocide. humans are more than ideal atoms, and some of them need to be communicated with in the language of harsh blunt truth.
Men who are unfuckable because of their politics need to man up. If you are spending several hundred words to say: “please integrate a more healthy relationship with masculinity” which is literally just telling them to man up with extra steps that they are uninterested in, you should consider that they are man enough to need to hear: “man up.”
You sound like someone who has read a lot and understood very little.
You sound like someone with the word ‘master’ in their online internet name.
Most women tend to not want to form relationships with misogynistic incels. That’s what’s seen as a skill issue.
Or men with autism or adhd. Cause that’s who you target with “just be more social and enjoyable.”
Men spending time to fix their financial issues instead of socializing up there too.
In so many words, this is just another “you’re lonely because you’re a bad person” misandrist jerk.
If it’s misandrist to tell the Trump voters who modeled their personalities on empty victory declaration and hurting brown people, then I’m a proud misandrist. Men who suck don’t deserve to get laid. No one deserves sex.
Drag’s partner deserves sex. Lots of it. Until it can’t think straight.
Haven’t seen you in awhile Drag, wonderful to run into you. First time on my new instance! (Had to switch form Lemm.ee)
Thank you for perfectly demonstrating one aspect of the peoblem you claim to understand. Assuming all lonely men are conservative is not only wrong but fucking stupid and extremely judgemental. Thank you for proving that you do not understand this problem what so ever, so now you can be safely ignored for the rest of this conversation.
Why do you believe that lonely men must suck? Like, do you think men who would be decent partners just immediately find success and leave the dating pool, never to vent their frustration with modern dating culture?
Studies show that political division is affecting dating.
The political environment involves a lot of broken weak men who learned broken weak masculinity and that’s affecting dating.
Is it possible to have a discussion without some queball trying to make it about Trump?
a discussion about masculinity in the present political era with toxic online personalities and toxic politics and you’re upset that Trump gets mentioned? That’s a ‘you’ problem.
We are on @lemmy.world, it is allowed to not be American.
Not all lonely men are Trump supporters
All Trump supporters who are lonely have some work to do and don’t really deserve sympathy.
Indeed, but my heart is going out to the ones who aren’t Trump supporters
You… do realize there are lonely men in other countries, right? Like, the US is not the only place on Earth? Ah yes, the infamous Trump voters from checks notes … Norway, Egypt, Japan, etc.
And if you’re gonna say “Well they’re not voting for Trump but some other Trump-like politician”, don’t bother. You can’t generalize every man, half the world population, just because you know men who voted Trump/Trump equivalents. Because if that’d be how it works, I could just as easily find you a woman that voted Trump and then point out how, supposedly, women suck cause they vote Trump based on this “evidence”.
.world ass take
Frankly my positioning on men and feminism is also received negatively on lemmy world. Everyone’s all about extending compassion and sympathy to men as subjects in an attempt to control them. Someone suggested we ‘redefine strength.’ To me strength cannot be redefined: you can only accept that many men are lonely because of their own choices and do, in fact, need to man up.
It isn’t easy, you know? It’s whether you get it or you don’t. Being fit and reliable is hard to some people.
the Trump voters who modeled their personalities on empty victory declaration and hurting brown people
???
Are you assuming lonely men all fit the above description? If so, that’s idiotic.
If not, then I don’t know what the fuck you’re on about, lol.
I think a lot of lonely men do fit that description; studies show that political division is affecting dating. It’s not that complicated.
You’re very much part of the problem. Reddit would be a much better fit for you.
Stereotyping and generalizing is uncomplicated by nature, yes. That’s the whole point, after all—to prejudge so that you can ‘spare’ your mind the effort of considering individual situations and circumstances.
Mass individual situations are contemplated through generalizations. I’m not interested in every snowflake.
You tell them.
The idea that men are struggling to find friends is a real concern that should be addressed, people being unable to find sexual companionship because people of their desired sex don’t want to be around them due to their personal choices is something that can be made fun of.
Many women want a guy who is pro choice, can cook, is able to hold a conversation that’s not about sex, is capable of having platonic female friends, has hobbies, and has decent hygiene.
If that is not something you can attain, that’s fine and there are still women out there for you but that eliminates a large percentage so if you want to be picky on top of that you are going to have a problem
The idea that men are struggling to find friends is a real concern that should be addressed, people being unable to find sexual companionship because people of their desired sex don’t want to be around them due to their personal choices is something that can be made fun of.
But conflating those two categories of men as if all lonely men are the latter, does no good to anyone, and only helps fuel misandric stereotypes.
The conflation is the problem but in my experience it is more people who are blaming the former when it is clearly the latter
Like if you walk around with a maga hat and tell women your body my choice and also complain you can’t find a nice women to settle down that is a skill issue
What about all the MAGA who got women? What did they do right?
So tell me this then: When people hear that a man hasn’t dated, why is the first thing that comes to your mind the assumption that “you walk around with a maga hat and tell women your body my choice”? Is that the only explanation? Is there no nuance in the world? If a man has never dated, is he automatically MAGA and anti-abortion?
It’s not the first thought, however when a person blames society for all their problems instead of making an effort to improve themselves that screams maga
Plenty of people struggle to date for a variety of reasons but the people out there calling not get laid the “male loneliness epidemic” are generally not the most normal people
Alright, anedotical evidence time! I am aware I am in a bit of a bubble, as I try to avoid the local variant of maga as much as possible in my life.
But I know several single male friends who I would say are at least of average attractiveness, smart, funny, know how to use a shower and a toothbrush, have decent education/money, cool hobbies and are politically progressive. Also I know of at least three of them who are deeply unhappy about not getting into a meaningful relationship.
Sometimes people are just stuck in a life situation or a place with not many compatible options and ways to meet people.
How do you define “cool hobbies”
Skinning hookers in their basements, plotting the violent takeover of the government, woodworking, climbing, just the usual boy stuff, you know?
Jokes aside, “things that a large percentage of the population looks at and says, hey, that is a cool hobby”. How is that for a definition?
Woodworking is a fun thing to do and a great conversation starter but also commonly done at home or at a shared work area that is all male
Rock climbing and plotting the violent takeover of the government has worked well for me however
It’s not that bad.
I didn’t ask to have BPD. I didn’t ask for inability to regulate emotions. I can only be me. I definitely cannot pretend to be relaxed or fun. That’s not just me. Relaxed side of me comes out slowly.
I am not asking for every woman to date me or even go out with me. All I am asking for is a bit of empathy. But if that’s too much, well. I cannot change anyone’s mind.
p.s., I wish I were not born. But, that is out of my hands too.
This post is not talking about you, don’t worry about it.
As a man experiencing a lack of friendship, camaraderie, and emotion connection, regardless of fault or cause, the OP reduces that experience to “not getting laid”. That affects me regardless of never actually using the phrase “male loneliness epidemic” to describe anything, of whether I fall into some 100 pages of “exceptions”, or that the post doesn’t explicitly say “those experiences don’t exist”. To say that the OP doesn’t actually communicate that is to simply close one’s eyes to an inconvenient truth of how people work.
Being told something has an impact. Even if it can be rationalized as “not about me”. Even if what was said isn’t what was intended. Even if some comments express support for people like me (and ignoring everyone who doubles down on it). Even if “big boy learns people say mean things sometimes”. What do you think that impact is gonna be here? For someone sharing my experiences who doesn’t stop to dig into this post, I doubt that impact is to move them towards being the sort of healthy, happy person we’d want.
Yeah, it kind of is.
No it isn’t. For example:
If the original poster said “It’s a skill issue, all you need to get a partner you need to shake their hand”.
And then the imaginary fckreddit was like “I didn’t ask to have no arms. I didn’t ask for an inability to do a shake hands. I can only be me…”
Do you see how it this was not targeting imaginary fckreddit. It can’t be a skill issue on imaginary fckreddit’s part because they have no arms.
Just like it can’t be a skill issue on the real fckreddit’s part because they lack the ability that most people have in that area though no fault of their own.
OP can’t literally specify all the possible exceptions to their advice. The post would be 100 pages.
It’s hard ro feel that way when this is constantly brought up. At best it feels like I am just being told that I am ‘one of the goods’
Alright then, tell us your criteria for men to follow to be truly lonely, since you’re so sure that BPD apparently disqualifies you.
What? All I am saying is that this person isn’t the target of this post. It sounds like they would have a very hard time doing the things the OP suggested. There is more than one way to be not lonely. I hope they try some other advice that is easier for them.
Going anywhere in public to socializing is expensive as hell, third places are dead, and the primary way people meet potential SOs is through apps whose purpose isn’t to make anyone happy but to extract maximum value from them.
There are people who are off the deep end, yes, but the answer isn’t to attack them like this. That’s never going to snap anyone out of it, and there really are huge societal problems that are resulting in people withdrawing, which is obviously bad for their mental health.
third places are dead
I’ve heard this line quite a few times. But… as far as I can tell, camping is still absolutely a popular past time. Parks and beaches are still a thing. Gyms and bars and clubs are as crowded as ever.
This reads much more like a meme than reality.
There are people who are off the deep end, yes, but the answer isn’t to attack them like this.
There’s a lot of mass media that’s screaming at people about how women and men are natural enemies and the only path to intimacy is through sexual assault.
Absolutely attack this ideology. Drag your friends back from it if you can. Mock and deride the notion if you can’t. Don’t tolerate the intolerable.
there really are huge societal problems that are resulting in people withdrawing, which is obviously bad for their mental health
Absolutely. So throw a party. Invite people out to do things. Mix and mingle.
Mocking and deriding people is very effective at radicalizing them, please do not do that, it consistently makes the problem worse.
I get that they would deserve that behaviour if they are advocating sexual assault, but if you care about that person, or the cultural issues they’re succumbing to, or the rising sentiment that men have to be rapey to ever have success with women, please don’t do that, it’s detrimental to the cause.
Mocking and deriding people is very effective at radicalizing them
To your side, certainly. That’s how hazing works. Exploiting people’s insecurities by calling them cucks and betas while presenting a facade of success and popularity is the Andrew Tate Special.
Piercing that bubble and outing fanatics as weirdos is necessary if you want to break their grip. If you’re tolerating abhorrent behavior - or, God forbid, rewarding it - you’re reinforcing it.
That sounds like an extremely good way to ensure they cling even tighter to the lies sold by the Tates of the world
Antagonism is extremely effective at shutting people off from change. If you antagonize someone and they actually change, they almost certainly could have been better reached through compassion.
And when, like the vast majority of people exposed to antagonism, they don’t? You have now convinced them anyone outside their bubble is unreasonable and cruel, and given them a sense of persecution they will reflexively hide behind any time they’re confronted with an outside perspective
That sounds like an extremely good way to ensure they cling even tighter to the lies sold by the Tates of the world
That’s because you’ve bought into the right wing propaganda. The endless campaign to coddle fascists has only ever produced more fascists.
What a dumbass take.
Holy, this thread is a mess. If you think all men who struggle dating are fascists, this conversation ends here. If you accept the fact that not every man not in a relationship is a fascist, then we can talk. More specifically, we can talk about how the point isn’t to “coddle fascists”, but rather to not antagonize new men into the arms of Andrew Tate and others.
Is someone with social anxiety, therefore struggles dating, a fascist? You might know a far-right socially anxious guy, sure, but that doesn’t prove anything beyond the fact that this one person is a fascist. I’m not sure how it’s right wing propaganda to say that generalization is bad. But I’m also not sure whether you realize an issue (in this case, men struggle with relationships) can have more than one cause.
Word. I’m demisexual and greyromantic. The idea that any guy who isn’t dating or may have trouble dating is a fascist is inherently aphobic.
If you think all men who struggle dating are fascists
No idea where you got that. But I do see a lot of fascists who alienate women as friends and partners, then grow resentful when they don’t receive “respect” they feel they deserve.
This can quickly escalate into stalking and further violence against family or ex-partners, unless other people intervene.
The idea that a violent misogynist shouldn’t be argued with or deterred, because their sense of superiority is more important than anyone else’s safety is what’s brought us to the modern fascist moment.
Is someone with social anxiety, therefore struggles dating, a fascist?
If “social anxiety” means lashing out at women in order to force them to comply with your demands?
Absolutely.
The key point here, however, is that exploiting insecurities through insults is not the only thing that Andrew Tate does.
He simultaneously messages to young men that they are weak/poor/unhealthy/cucks/betas/etc, but also that they deserve more, that it’s not entirely their fault that they’re not getting rich/women/success/etc, and that if they do xyz, they’ll fix themselves. Solely insulting them isn’t what makes the messaging effective, it’s the putting down of their current position in life while simultaneously promising a solution through notions of them having things like sex or money “taken” from them.
It’s certainly okay to mock or insult ideologies that are harmful, and to do a bit of that to the people that promote them, but only doing that will only radicalize them away from you. Think about these 2 scenarios:
Scenario A: “You’re worthless, you’ll never be anything, you’re poor, a virgin, and will die alone”
Scenario B: “You’re worthless, you’re poor, a virgin, and you’ll never be anything unless you follow these x steps to become a better man”
Scenario B is what Andrew Tate uses on young men. Scenario A is pure harassment that doesn’t motivate anybody on its own, Scenario B motivates action.
If you just ridicule a friend that has negative beliefs and don’t present any alternative, they will stop being your friend. If you deride them for sharing a harmful belief, then explain the alternative and how it would make them better off, you’re more likely to get them to actually change. (though this is, of course, not universal, and I’m sure a small subset of people could be motivated to change purely off insults and nothing more)
I hope I explained that well, I’m quite prone to rambling 😅
